C300: C100/C300/1DC Advice/ Help

T

travelsthroughimages

Member
Hi All,

Looking for some thoughts on purchasing an EOS cinema camera. I would love any advice as I have been doing quite a bit of research and am still stuck on what camera package would be best. Any personal opinions would be greatly appreciated on user experience good or bad. I have been shooting with a T2i/7D/5D Mark III for the past 3 years and would like to make the jump into a more video specific setup. After a ton of research I would like stay with Canon and moving into there EOS line is definitely something I would like to do. I have saved 25K for camera/lenses/rig and would be curious to know what others thought. I am moving in the direction of Zeiss ZE lenses for the most part but still cannot make up my mind on the body. Is the C300 worth the extra cost from the C100? How does the picture quality compare from the 1DC to C100/300? Etc? Thanks again in advance for any assistance, below are my reels if anybody is curious to see my shooting style.


 
There is a recent tread here on the C100/300 pros and cons.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?317767-C100-or-C300

The 1DC is a very different beast. The main differences being it takes photos, has no xlr inputs, no ND filters and it shoots 4k. It will very similar in use to your dslrs in how you set it up etc. Im sure others will add their opinions.

You have to ask yourself if you want a true video only camera or stick with the dslr form factor you are used to. I for one don't miss the dslr for video shooting.
 
C300 and C100 are not well suited to make slow motion, maybe you should choose another type of camera as FS 100 or Sony FS700...
 
Only you can decide if the C300 is worth it over the C100. Some people thought yes and bought the C300, some people thought no and bought the C100, so clearly there is no one right answer here.

I'm in the C100 camp because I didn't have the budget for the C300 and the C100 is, for my needs at least just about everything I needed from the C300 anyway. I use a Ninja 2 for ProRes HQ when I know I'm shooting for broadcast and the Z-FIND-C1 for when I need a good viewfinder. I never shoot in 720p on the DSLRs or other cameras, so it's not something I miss.

While I can (and do) appreciate the value of the DSLR cameras, having shot with everything from the 500D to 60D, 7D,5D2 etc and currently have two 5D3 bodies, I really don't use them much when shooting video now because the C100 images puts them to shame.

I was regularly choosing the XF300 over the DSLR simply because it was a real video camera, actually produced sharper images (you had to add blur in post to dumb it down to the DSLRs!) had XLRs and could record for longer when I was covering events. The AF was always there as an option when I needed it. The only thing that lets the XF300 (and XF100s) down was low light. That's where the C100/30 shine.

The C100/C300 have most of the advantages of the XF300 (except the continuous AF - which is apparently coming to the C100) while still having picture quality that far exceeds the DSLRs.

I also recently did a comparison of the DSLR vs C100 kit. By the time I'd added audio, extra (genuine) camera batteries, extra audio batteries, ND filters, cables and adapters to mount the audio etc, the DSLR kit was bigger and harder to carry around / set up than the C100 and the cost wasn't really that far from a C100 either. If you have the budget then getting two C100s over one C300 may be a consideration unless there is something about the C300 you really need.

The 1Dc falls squarely in the DSLR camp for me. You still need all the extras that go along with the DSLR. Would I like one? Sure, but it's not in the budget right now and while 4K would be nice to play with I don't see that as fulfilling my future 4K needs. I'd rather shoot with a good HD camera now and see what's on the market when I actually 'need' 4K. Maybe by then there'll be some rationally priced new 4K cameras, or perhaps some good used C500s around :)
 
By looking at your work I would as a suggestion....

Look at the C100 with ninja recorder. Have the ninja for when you want the codec and quality and then shoot to internal codec when you need to move fast and light. The C100 is smaller and lighter than the C300. THEN, think about picking up the Sony RX10 as a B cam or even lighter and faster camera which will also give you 1080/60p for any slow mo work you might want to do.

All three things come well under the price of the Canon C300.
 
C100 is a strong buy. I dislike it. Much to like, but I don't.


With all the natural light shooting you do, why are you not considering something beyond Canon? Canons can be beautiful, with great color rendering, and are good in low light, but you will keep running into dynamic range issues that video cameras have had since their beginning. Digital clipping is still digital clipping, doesn't matter if you have 11stops to work with, it is still crappy looking and it is still going to get you in trouble through out the day.

Cine EOS is an obvious step up from the old dslr world, but you are still stuck in the video world.


But if you know that, then I would suggest two C100's over one C300. The 1DC is better, but more expensive then either because of the accessories needed for top performance. And ROLLING SHUTTER can be an issue, in particularly in 4k, I do not notice it so much in s35.

Overall the Cine EOS cameras are hard to beat, and fun to use, but if a gorgeous organic image is what you are after, then maybe go with an F3 or Scarlet. They may not get the same praise for skintones, but they get smoother tonality and deal with unpredictable lighting better, which is the other half of the skintone debate. A slight over exposure of skin on a Cine EOS and things look burnt a bit quicker.

But there is still much to like about the Cine EOS cameras, and I really like using them, and they are noticeable step up from the EX1/Live-View-DSLR days. The 1D-c is my favorite of the bunch, for image and form factor, but the other two are better video work horses.
 
Thanks so much for the replies I really enjoy hearing other peoples thoughts on the matter. I was in the red scarlet camp for a while and almost made the purchase until I read this article:

http://fstoppers.com/why-i-sold-my-red-and-downgraded-to-a-c100/comment-page-3

I am a bit of a run and gun shooter and I feel like the RED process might not be what I really need. Also action sports is more of a hobby for me, I do generate some income from it but nothing close to my corporate or hospitality work. Slow motion is important, but not as important as image quality I think. Thanks again for the helpful words!
 
good thought.

heres another thought: if you are already planning on using an external monitor, then i would chalk that as another point for the c100 with either a ninja or oddessy recorder.
 
I would not go for current Scarlet for available light. I came very close to buying one, but as fate would have it I ended up with the 1Dc. I am very, very happy about that now.

That said, I've started to look closer at RED again lately with Dragon around the corner. I do quite a bit of unlit work, and Dragon is the first offering from RED that might be able to handle that. Looking at Dragon files, I have to say that it looks very nice. There's an issue with flaring that doesn't look good, but other than that...

I also get real time performance in FCPX with Dragon files on my standard 2010 Mac Pro, so that's nice.

But... that is still some time away. I'd say Canon C100. I had it and liked it. Just didn't want to schlepp two cameras with me all the time (C100 and 5Dmk3) so I went for the 1Dc...
 
AndreeOnline said:
I would not go for current Scarlet for available light. I came very close to buying one, but as fate would have it I ended up with the 1Dc. I am very, very happy about that now.

That said, I've started to look closer at RED again lately with Dragon around the corner. I do quite a bit of unlit work, and Dragon is the first offering from RED that might be able to handle that. Looking at Dragon files, I have to say that it looks very nice. There's an issue with flaring that doesn't look good, but other than that...

I also get real time performance in FCPX with Dragon files on my standard 2010 Mac Pro, so that's nice.

But... that is still some time away. I'd say Canon C100. I had it and liked it. Just didn't want to schlepp two cameras with me all the time (C100 and 5Dmk3) so I went for the 1Dc...
Click to expand...


I do like the option of 1080 60p on the 1DC, I did look a bit beyond Canon and the F5 seems like an option that might work as well. However, I do not know if I Can get a suitable rig for 25K and it looked like The EF Mount converters were a bit minimal. I need the use of my 70-200 F/2.8 quite a bit. Thoughts?
 
travelsthroughimages said:
I do like the option of 1080 60p on the 1DC, I did look a bit beyond Canon and the F5 seems like an option that might work as well. However, I do not know if I Can get a suitable rig for 25K and it looked like The EF Mount converters were a bit minimal. I need the use of my 70-200 F/2.8 quite a bit. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

How comfortable are you with you current 5D3 set up? The focus (Sh!t AF in LV), the stealth factor(form factor)?

If you are fine then may be you can go for the 1DC. If unsatisfy with these are the reason you want a new camera than sure C100 or C300

If focus is what you need the C100

I tried the C100 and 70D for a few days, the new Dual pixel on these are excellent as good as any thing you can buy even comparing it with Handycam or EVIL. For the C100 is good and hand for operation but its look scare people off if you want to shoot in the street. with the 1DC no one realize you are doing video if you have a simple set up.

C300? I tried it at CPS but still cannot see the major advantage. Is probably like the 5D3 vs 1DX/1D4, if you need and can afford it, you buy it and it cannot be replaced by other equipment, but you have to ask yourself do you need the little extra. C300 do not have AF?

If you are using external recorder for raw all 3 can do very well, Probably 1DC is even better in low light condition because of its CMOS size?

Also depending on what Lens collection you have currently? I have about 20K worth of Canon L lens, over the years of collecting them . So I am a bit reluctant and empty(wallet) to get any CINE lens.
I would prefer to spend more money on lens than to buy a 3X expensive C300. Where camera technology last 2-3 years max, while lens technology will last 5-10 years or lifetime?

If I am you my choice is C100 or 1DC.

FInally if you buy 1DC just remember to count the CF card cost in the budget.
I under estimated the cost of these CF and back up storage( and new Mac pro) when I bought the 1DC earlier in the year.
Since then I have spend the cost of 1x C100 for CF card and 1X5D3 for NAS
plus the cost of 1x 1DC for a new Mac Pro in the next couple of month( still saving up and deciding which spec to buy)
If not for these I would have bought a hexchopter with gimbal for DSLR( now I am still using gopro+phantom) for xmas.

Although I am complaining again, but still I do not regret buying the 1DC, its picture quality is so great. especially with the 70-200ISUSM II or other L lens or Zeiss Cine lens( if you have nail the focus).

I am not a professional, I am just a guy who like to film and take pictures and cook.:D
 
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cookinghusband said:
How comfortable are you with you current 5D3 set up? The focus (Sh!t AF in LV), the stealth factor(form factor)?

If you are fine then may be you can go for the 1DC. If unsatisfy with these are the reason you want a new camera than sure C100 or C300

If focus is what you need the C100

I tried the C100 and 70D for a few days, the new Dual pixel on these are excellent as good as any thing you can buy even comparing it with Handycam or EVIL. For the C100 is good and hand for operation but its look scare people off if you want to shoot in the street. with the 1DC no one realize you are doing video if you have a simple set up.

C300? I tried it at CPS but still cannot see the major advantage. Is probably like the 5D3 vs 1DX/1D4, if you need and can afford it, you buy it and it cannot be replaced by other equipment, but you have to ask yourself do you need the little extra. C300 do not have AF?

If you are using external recorder for raw all 3 can do very well, Probably 1DC is even better in low light condition because of its CMOS size?

Also depending on what Lens collection you have currently? I have about 20K worth of Canon L lens, over the years of collecting them . So I am a bit reluctant and empty(wallet) to get any CINE lens.
I would prefer to spend more money on lens than to buy a 3X expensive C300. Where camera technology last 2-3 years max, while lens technology will last 5-10 years or lifetime?

If I am you my choice is C100 or 1DC.

FInally if you buy 1DC just remember to count the CF card cost in the budget.
I under estimated the cost of these CF and back up storage( and new Mac pro) when I bought the 1DC earlier in the year.
Since then I have spend the cost of 1x C100 for CF card and 1X5D3 for NAS
plus the cost of 1x 1DC for a new Mac Pro in the next couple of month( still saving up and deciding which spec to buy)
If not for these I would have bought a hexchopter with gimbal for DSLR( now I am still using gopro+phantom) for xmas.

Although I am complaining again, but still I do not regret buying the 1DC, its picture quality is so great. especially with the 70-200ISUSM II or other L lens or Zeiss Cine lens( if you have nail the focus).

I am not a professional, I am just a guy who like to film and take pictures and cook.:D
Click to expand...


I am starting to get closer and closer to the 1DC with Zeiss glass. From what I have read in the past few weeks its options are starting look better each day.

So far my list is :

Canon 1DC
San Disk 128GB Extreme Pro CF Card
RedRock Studio Rig
Zeiss ZE (35,50macro,85,135)
Canon 70-200 2.8
2 Batteries

What I have already
Canon 70-200 F/4
Zeiss 50mm F/1.4
Canon 24-105
Tokina 11-16
 
I looked at your work and I think C100 would fine for you, I have that camera and I love it, I shoot in WD Range mode and do simple grading and color correction just fine without any artifacts. The image from the camera is stunning even without grading.

Here are some graded samples for WD Range.
Here are some graded samples for WD Range + Slow Motion from 50i.
Here are some graded samples for Log: one, two.
 
If you're going with Zeiss ZE, you should really look at the the Duclos cine-modded ZF.

Personally I have a C300, and while the small ergonomic/convenient touches that set it apart from the C100 seem not worth it for the massive price difference, especially when researching this on the internet with no hands-on evaluation, they sure seem indispensable to me now. I wouldn't make a very hard case for the C300 to the budget conscious buyer, but it's a very well made and hardy piece of equipment, mechanically. One of the chief benefits of the C300 lines is the very efficient-yet-robust onboard codec, making it ideal for run&gun/documentary and editing on a laptop quickly.
 
Alex, these are the best examples of someone understanding how to make this camera shine. I honestly cared less about what camera your work was shot on because the content was so well put together. Great shots, choice of lighting and editing. I really enjoyed your documentary about the sculptor. Also your slow motion example sold me on the capabilities of what this camera can do. Are you recording any of these pieces to a Ninja or is it all internal AVCHD codec? How are you achieving slow motion exactly?

Awesome stuff man

sony3000 said:
I looked at your work and I think C100 would fine for you, I have that camera and I love it, I shoot in WD Range mode and do simple grading and color correction just fine without any artifacts. The image from the camera is stunning even without grading.

Here are some graded samples for WD Range.
Here are some graded samples for WD Range + Slow Motion from 50i.
Here are some graded samples for Log: one, two.
Click to expand...
 
My 2 cents: I just got a C100 and love it. I do have the Ninja 2 when needed. I sold my Scarlet and traded down but it is so much more fun. You can just grab it and go and the light sensitivity destroys the Scarlet. I am not a Red hater I still have my Epic and it is great when you have the crew and money to use it properly but, when not, the C100 is the answer for me.
 
Cameras come and go, everything else (of good quality) stays. Unless you can amortize an expensive camera in 12 months, buy the cheapest one that can do the job. My advice at this point is to buy the C100 and rent if you need better (ALEXA is very cheap to rent).
For the price of a C300 you can get a C100, ....plus a Profoto/Joker 800 HMI, a pair of Kino Tegras and some ARRI tungsten. Guess WHAT will make the difference.

Same for the the 1DC. For the same amount you can get a C100+5D3+BMCC4k.
A few dozen people will need stills+(8bit-banding)4k in a small package and can pay the absurd price Canon put to it (I know, I'm a marketing manager).


Invest in glass, tripods, lights, audio.
Cameras are sort of disposable items these days.
 
travelsthroughimages said:
I am starting to get closer and closer to the 1DC with Zeiss glass. From what I have read in the past few weeks its options are starting look better each day.

So far my list is :

Canon 1DC
San Disk 128GB Extreme Pro CF Card
RedRock Studio Rig
Zeiss ZE (35,50macro,85,135)
Canon 70-200 2.8
2 Batteries

What I have already
Canon 70-200 F/4
Zeiss 50mm F/1.4
Canon 24-105
Tokina 11-16
Click to expand...

For the CF card may be consider buying one of those Sandisk 256 instead of the 128, then the remainder get transcend 128 1000x, I have 8 of these Transcend and they are fine and have lifetime warrantee.

128gb can only do 31 minutes of 4K 24fps movie. twice for the 256gb, only have semi auto card switching

I recently bought a Tamron 24-702.8 vc it might be useful.

The 1DC have a 1.4 crop when doing 4k and 1.6 crop when doing Super35 . Please count that in when you buy lenses.
 
rgdfilms said:
Alex, these are the best examples of someone understanding how to make this camera shine. I honestly cared less about what camera your work was shot on because the content was so well put together. Great shots, choice of lighting and editing. I really enjoyed your documentary about the sculptor. Also your slow motion example sold me on the capabilities of what this camera can do. Are you recording any of these pieces to a Ninja or is it all internal AVCHD codec? How are you achieving slow motion exactly?

Awesome stuff man
Click to expand...

I am glad you liked it :) I record all footage straight into the camera. I do not have external recorder. If I did it will bulk the setup and keeping it compact is very important to me. For slow motion I record in 50i, in NLE I make 50% slow motion and that is it :)
 
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