C300: C-Series with B4 Adapters & Broadcast Zooms?

B

Bassman2003

Veteran
Hello,

Just wated to see if anybody is using a C-Series camera with a B4 adapter and broadcast zoom lenses?

I am aware the use of an adapter results in a 2+ stop of light loss but wonder how one of these setups compares to a Varicam with regards to light gathering/noise and image quality under similar conditions.

Anybody have any firsthand experience?

Thanks
 
I demo'd the IBE HDx2 mkII that Abel sales back in the fall. Depending on what you shoot, it can be a very useful tool in your toolbox. Yes, you are going to lose about 2 1/2 stops of light, but if you are shooting outdoors during the day, this really doesn't matter. Shooting at a base ISO of 850 I was still rolling ND in and able to stop down.

I'm a network ENG guy, so having an ENG lens on the front of my C300, after shooting with nothing but still lenses on it to that point, was NICE. A physical aperture ring, real focus, servo zoom AND a HUGE ZOOM RANGE. There simply aren't PL/Cine zooms out there with the range and flexibility of ENG lenses.

The IBE adapter is an optical adapter and unlike the other main one out there, it handles the optical conversion completely and doesn't rely on the lenses built-in 2x(which leaves it available for use while shooting, if you need it). The field of view that the lenses produce on a S35 sensor with the IBE adapter is the same that you get when they are used on a 2/3" camera. I tested it with my Fuji HA 13x4.5 and HA 22x7.8(both are Fuji's top of the line Premiere series HD 2/3" ENG/EFP lenses). I used my 70-200/2.8 IS L mkII as the baseline for the image quality comparison. Let's get the obvious out of the way. They will not give you the same results, image quality wise, as a quality still or cine lens. While not a super scientific test, I tried to make it close. I shot a still scene with the 70-200 at 70mm wide open(2.8) then the same scene with the two ENG lenses zoomed in to the equivalent focal length, wide open(1.8 actual/approx. 4.4 effective) and the C300's ISO adjusted to achieve equivalent exposure(C300 was set to preset Tungsten and I was inside shooting 'available', so I had the ISO around 5000 or so if memory serves me correctly). Compared to the 70-200, the ENG lenses didn't have the image 'pop', exhibited more vignetting and were 'warmer', but it's been noted that Canons still lenses are more neutral or cooler than their Cine glass and I didn't have any Canon Cine's at that time, so I can't say how they would look color wise in comparison. If you were intercutting a scene with still or cine lenses and ENG lenses, there is an obvious difference. I'm sure it could be mitigated to some degree in post, but there IS a difference. Now if you are ONLY using ENG lenses, then a lot of people probably wouldn't notice since there wouldn't be a comparison with something that looked different. By themselves, the results are almost completely satisfactory. The only really objectionable thing I ran into was with my long lens(22x7.8 which would equate to 20-446) when wide open, got "milky" zoomed in and at closer focusing distances. Stoping down a few stops, this cleared up.

I see the adapter being MOST useful to those that shoot wildlife and/or a lot of 'long lens' stuff where you need a lot of range and reach. I would have loved to have had it so I could have used my 13x4.5 on several C300 shoots that were run & gun, but it is still a bit awkward since it puts the lens and grip WAY out in front of you. Even with my "ENG" set-up(RedRock studio cage, Tilta shoulder mount and Alpatron VF), it still wasn't the same as an ENG camera. BUT it was much better than a still lens. Although I didn't end up buying it at the time, I may in the future, depending on what types of shoots I do this year with my C300. I Just purchased a set of Canon Cine primes and if I mainly do feature type shoots, then I really won't need the adapter, but if there continues to be a lot of run & gun type shoots, it may be worth the $5800 to give me the speed and versatility that you need in those situations.
 
Thanks for your post Run & Gun. Great information. I am kind of coming at this from the opposite direction. I have a couple of "H" model Varicams that I use for filming live events & sports. They are serving their role very well. My work is not centered around SDOF looks, but I would like to have that option above a DSLR. So I can not justify replacing the Varicams unless I can find a suitable setup that allows the use of broadcast zooms as the servo motors make all of the difference to me.

I will have to find a way to demo one of these because I am curious how clean or noisy the C300 image would be once it is raised to equal the Varicam in an indoor environment. The Varicam is not the cleanest camera so I am thinking the C300 might still have a shot. A side by side would be wonderful. I like the color on the Varicam as I have it dialed in but I suspect the C300 will be as accurate and with a brighter gamma, especially in the low end.
 
A properly set-up VariCam DOES look good(I have a 27H and two 2700's). The C300 is a great looking camera that is very forgiving in mixed lighting and has an incredible amount of detail, even though it only records a max of 1080. Everything seems to have a texture and 'dimensionality' to it. As far as cranking up the 300's ISO, it is VERY clean. You can go up to 3200 and 6400 with out much of an issue. I just spoke to Paul at Macie on Monday and he said they are setting them up now and even matching them to other cameras for people. He said they have been matching them for 60 Minutes crews to their ENG cameras because they are using C300's as second cams. So you can definitely get it looking like your Vari, or at least VERY close.
 
i toyed around with this a bit back, haven't revisited yet since i happened to get the one lens that no one's made a DC adapter cable for and can't find a pinout anywhere.

with this setup i found that i needed to stop down to 5.6 to start getting acceptable corner sharpness


wish canon would give us some sort of windowed shooting mode. if 4k on the c500 resolves 4k, then i would imagine a 2x crop 1080 on any C cameras would still give us a darn good image and make b4 lenses usable with only 1.4x TC or just a small post crop.

NOTE: the first video is just with the lens's built in 2x tx and post crop, the second video is lens tc plus a kenko 1.4x. i believe the second video was shot either wide open or close to it. this was not an expensive lens, just picked it up to see if this was at all a feasible possibility
 
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Thanks for your replies guys. It sounds ike the C300 would be as clean or cleaner than the 27H Varicam after an ISO lift, but the question seems to be with the adapter and optical issues. Milky at the long end and possible corner softness would be a step in wrong direction. I need to see if there is a place to demo a setup like this in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area.

Thinking out loud here, my thought was to replace the Varicams with a C300/100 type of setup, but when I think about it, the amount I would get for the used Vari's would be low. Probably puts them into the more useful to keep than sell category! After the cost of the adapter, it would be best to just keep the Vari's and get a C100 or used C300 and use it as it was designed. One adapter costs the same as a C100.
 
Unfortunately, the 27H(and a LOT of other good cams)is like an old used car, it's "transportation value" far exceeds its resell value. Although I don't use my 27 much anymore I have no intentions of selling it. It paid for itself MANY times over the very first year I had it and has been paid off for years and I have a good camera that still works in today's tapeless world with my Nano on it. A few rentals/uses a year and you can easily surpass its value on the used market.

To me, the C300 doesn't sound like the type of camera you need for these shoots anyway. I see so many people, and I've been involved in a lot of these shoots, that are trying to shoehorn these cameras into situations that should be done with ENG cameras and lenses.
 
Very true and I will take your words to heart. Making things overly difficult never helps. Take care and thread issues resolved!
 
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