Buying Used HVX200A And Using P2 Cards - MXF Format

ENIGMACODE

ENIGMACODE

Active member
Hi Barry - Hi Gang

I'm an older fillmmaker and 'SD Editor' using FCP7 just now stepping up to HD. Would like to minimize the learning curve staying close to similar controls (resembling my old DVX100B). Currently looking at HVX200A's & HVX200's on Ebay or a local sale. I've confirmed its a safe bet and a good idea however I'd like to run it by you guys. So I have a few questions: Is the difference worth it to step up to a HVX200A as opposed to a HVX200? I've read that it is in fact worth it but also amazed at the 'Higher Holiday Prices' on Ebay as compared to a good used HVX200A from last summer. I'd also like to get opinions-suggestions on 'Work Flow' using the following equipment: Mac Pro 1,1 MA356LL/A (16 GB RAM), Apple Cinema A1083 30" and FCP7 all within 10.8.6 Snow Leopard on a nicely tweaked machine. There are opinions suggesting advantages regarding the ease and lesser expensive SD Cards as opposed to older P2 cards. But there are many sellers including those older pricey P2 Cards on 'the cheap'. However I've read it still may be neccessary to use 'Pavtube MTS/M2TS Converter for Mac' regarding import of MFX files? I realize its extremely important to 'Back Up' - Drag those files over (in their original directory) BEFORE bringing them into FCP7.

Any ideas - instructions - opinions regarding my questions above are very much appreciated. It seems 'Creative Cow' and the 'Apple Forum' have all just about given up any discussion regarding all the equipment and software mentioned above.

Thank You!
Mike Fraticelli
http://www.ww2survivorstories.com/previews.html
 
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Mike,

The 200A is a better bet than the original 200 due to a significantly improved sensor. You might also think about a HPX170 which has the same updated sensor, deletes the tape drive (which you can't use for HD anyway), and ads a few other features like an SDI port. Although not as popular with the present large sensor, 4k, shallow DOF crowd, P2 workflow is alive and well in the news business. The cam I use is a few generations newer; the PX270, uses P2, and is a terrific 1080 cam.

Don't get me wrong, the older Pannycams can still produce some nice images, but this generation of cams are not nearly as sharp as any of the newer cams. The 200a was basically a 720 cam uprezzed so you will end up with a somewhat soft vintage look before you even get to edit. My old 170 (sold a while back) is still a favorite cam of mine; it just had everything you needed. In my case, when I traded up, most of my accessories dating back to my own DVX100b would still work with my newer cam including batteries, focus and zoom controls and filters. In addition, for the type of work I do, the handycam form factor still makes sense. But realistically, you might want to survey the market for alternatives unless you have some similar motivation. As far as cost goes, I certainly wouldn't throw much money at an older cam like this. I wouldn't give more than around $500 for either cam. People ask for more, but it just isn't realistic considering what is available new. Another very similar, but not a P2 cam, is the 150 model. Panny sold loads of these since they record to cheap SD media, but the codec is the more compressed AVCHD, so not quite as wonderful when editing.

Not sure where your budget is at, but for a more modern P2 cam, you might want to consider a 250 model which is a fairly recent cam, very sharp, longer lens, better in low light, and more. There are a ton of little wonder cams out there which can shoot some beautiful images, but they usually lack much for audio, so second system audio becomes a cost and hassle factor consideration.

I know you might be wanting to trim cost by wanting to stay with FCP7, but newer software will handle your P2 ingest natively. Not sure about ingesting into Black Magic Resolve, but that is a freebie editor from Black Magic. I fought the losing battle trying to keep a lot of legacy software going like a time warp gone wrong until I realized I was spending as much time patching stuff to work rather than working on my projects. Trust me, this only gets worse with time. A side note, for HD editing, you might need more RAM for you CPU.

I hope this gives you a little bit to chew on from someone who has already fought this battle.

Best Regards,
Grant
 
Hi Grant! Good to see you - I thought all the P2 Card guys with HVX200A's beat it out of here? Sometimes its like a Ghost-Town? LOL Your comments and suggestions were all 'right on' - And you guessed yes - I'm trying to hang around 2010ish technology simply because I'm so familiar with FCP7 working in 'Snow Leopard' and already have everything I need. I appreciate your softer approach knowing where I'm coming from. I just don't have that kind of money right now having relocated from Philly to Tucson. Since becoming disabled all I'll be shooting is 'fun stuff' at the retirement community and a few Demos for a friend. But definitely need to step up to HD, (at Least). I agree when these guys start getting a grand for an HXV200 the camera better have Low Hours and in 'pristine condition'. I'd rather spend that kind of money on an HVX200A with low operation hours. So Grant you say my old DVX100B batteries will work? And Beefing up the RAM in the 1,1 Mac Pro Desk Top will help too! So Grant if I stay with an HVX200A will I still need to use those intermediary programs like 'Pavtube MTS/M2TS Converter for Mac' in order to Back Up & extract the P2 Media? And I'll try to look for an HVX200A in great shape, (but hesitate with Adorama in NY). Will try to stay with 'single owner' if possible Thanx Grant!
 
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FWIW, I have had decent luck with the used departments at both Adorama and BH. Both will want a bit too much money, but probably less risk since they both have good return policies. Though caution is always encouraged, you might ad a WTB at DVXuser. I bet there are some cams collecting dust in some members closets.

Until my switch to Premiere from FCP7, I used the Panny P2 ingest program which is free at the Panny Pro site. It logs in your footage and verifies the content and allows you to add metadata.

If you want DVX100 familiar, you would like any of the updated PannyCams; 200a, 170, 150, 230, 250, 270. They all feel mostly the same, but become sharper and add features with the evolution. Any of them will use your existing system peripherals and batteries. One of the site founders, Barry Green has a terrific book on the 200a and 170 series cams. You HAVE to find this book, it is invaluable and will help you regardless of what cam you buy. I learned more from his book than any other resource ever and still refer to it here and there since it explains so much about the scene file adjustments so well. He may have a copy left to sell you. Check eBay also. It came bundled with most of the new 200s and 170s. If I had my choice between a 200a and the 170, I would go with the 170 for equal money. The reasons include a better 6 pin firewire plug (there were a lot of problems with the 4 pin plug on the 200), SDI connection, more monitor improvements including a waveform monitor (which is a BFD). It is an update worth having over the 200a. Note that neither cam has HDMI output but do have component out. The only thing that might be worthwhile on the 200a would be if you need the tape drive for some reason.

Grant
 
Hey Mike - I still have my HVX200A... :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) It doesn't get much use these days ... but occasionally gets pulled back out on certain projects. And I agree with the good advice Grant has given you. (I've thought of selling mine... but I see them on eBay, etc for $600 - so not ready to let mine go that cheaply). When I used that camera a lot , I always shot 720PN and while it's not great in low light - it was (is) always reliable / dependable. Good luck!
 
Hi Grant & Mark (Thanks for your patience) and speedy replies! You mentioned: "you might ad a WTB at DVXuser. I bet there are some cams collecting dust in some members closets". In other words post an ad for a '200A wanted' - yes? And BTW thanx Mark for considering selling me yours. Being a 'New Yorker' I always preferred B&H over Adorama and wondered about Adorama's lack of 'actual camera' photographs. They have sooo many HVX's for sale I guess they never bother to take pictures of the cameras themselves so at least you can get to see what they look like cosmetically. On the other hand I agree they have a liberal return policy and their prices appear lower then the average 'privately owned HVX200A' on ebay. Back to capturing with the '200A' can you guys tell me a little more about the neccesity for 'Pavtube MTS/M2TS Converter for Mac'? Is that why Grant uses "the Panny P2 ingest program"? Considering my familiarity with FCP7 and the equipment I already have, how many hoops would I have to learn to bring the 200A footage into FCP7? Grant, the term 'PannyCams'? Does this refer to the older style camcorders like the DVX and the HVX? And Mark, no I don't need the tape mechanism (except as a back up), since I kept my original DVX100B. But I still like the familiar feel of the 200A (similiar to the DVX100B) and love the option of using the same peripherals and batteries. BTW, I have Barry's 1st book about the DVX, (many of the ebay 200A packages include the newer book). And lastly do you guys think this jump to 'HD' via the 200A is a decent improvement? Again, its not the latest or the greatest but at least it will get me into the world of HD. I spent a decade editing and shooting my documentary in SD beginning 2006 interviewing WWII veterans accross the country including Germany. Now its time to have a little fun with HD, (avoiding 4K and later complexities). Thanx again guys - I thought this kind of help was lost forever. 'Creative Cow' and of course the 'Apple Forum' are dead regarding this old equip and software :(
 
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Hey Mike,
thought I would give ya my two cents. The HVX200 original or the A version are still reliable cameras. I just recently re-purchased an original HVX200 off ebay and I am very happy with it. I also suggest the Barry Green book or the DVD boot camp videos. I have tweaked my cam so as to squeeze every drop of HD goodness from it. If you, like me, are no longer shooting for other people and it is just for YT or VIMEO you will find the HVX an enjoyable camera experience, and all my old DVX stuff transferred no problem. The P2 cards are now a lot cheaper than they were back in the day and still very reliable. I had a SmallHD monitor that I bought for my Canon T2i that I use with it and man what a difference from using the evf or the lcd. If you can find one of the older SmallHD monitors like the 4.5 it is well worth the extra expense, and if you are handy you can buy an adapter plate from B&H so you can use the panny batteries to run that monitor all day and into the night. Which is another bonus, the batteries can be found on eBay for cheap and they last a long time. So I would say go ahead and buy one. I even went so far as to re-purchase a RedRock M2e adapter! Got some Rokinnon cinema lenses and everything looks good. Old tech is still useful, just takes a little more skill to use;)

Cheers.

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These are the people I bought mine from. They are pretty reliable and for what you are getting its a good price. But if you are looking for the A i'm sure you can find one or an HPX170. Check it out Mike.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Panasonic-A...602788?hash=item4d65468764:g:zEUAAOSwHAdZuHHu
 
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I'd second the HPX170 over the HVX's, I owned an HVX200 and then moved onto the HPX170 - lighter weight, better sensor, specially for low light,
fantastic camera, used to love using that, since moved onto AF101's and prob getting the EVA1 next, love the Panasonic look :)
**HMC150 might also be worth a look, similar cam to the HPX170 but uses SD cards, even better low light, only drawback is the codecs aren't as strong,
AVCCAM 420 rather than the HDCAM (?) 422 files the HPX/HVX record
 
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I third the HPX170 as more advanced for not much more money. Would only choose the HVX200 if you need tape.
 
Thanx guys I'm looking into the 170 now but first please read: I can't believe how thoughtful and considerate everyone is here compared to some of the old 'snobs' who ran 'Creative Cow' or the old 'Apple Support Forum'. They ran things like a Kingdom and you were just an 'annoyance' never considering I'm an experienced SD editor, (feel free to visit my site). For me this site is 'safe refuge' for those who already respect the business and already paid 'some dues'. I think its short-minded and prejudiced for old hacks to get jaded from 'newbies' and their occasional 'short falls.' Everyone is different, Enuf said - back to business: I was all set to jump on an older 200, (the prices last summer were phenomenal). But now with the Holidays they've jumped up considerably. Let me summarize: Barry Green thanks for all the wonderful books, (I own a few). After a decade of editing and shooting in SD for numerous WWII veterans beginning in 2006, my goal now is to finally jump into HD (for fun only) BUT trying to utilize my equipment on hand, (very low budget): Mac Pro Desktop MA356LL/A, FCP7 and an Apple Cinema A1083 30". The P2 cards are fine but a jump start in extraction would be great. Grant mentioned he uses 'Panny P2'. Is 'Pavtube MTS/M2TS Converter for Mac' still relevant-available? Despite its age I'd like to stay with FCP7 a little longer (for now) avoiding additional learning curves. I understand: The raw files cannot be ingested directly into FCP7- 1st they must be Backed Up preserving the entire directory (kept on an external drive). Then I can Log & Transfer into FC and edit from there - correct? In regard to the 170 I do believe the advantages and its probably a newer release? Does the 170 have a crisper 1080 appearance? Can I still edit full quality in FC? Only downside is that they're a bit more pricier than the older 200 & 200A's. But I'll enjoy the similarity to my DVX100B. Last question about the camera's designation: Is the AG-HPX170P (with the P?) Thanx for your patience guys! Mike :) http://www.ww2survivorstories.com/previews.html (the entire ten year project was shot on several 100B's)
 
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Hey Mike,
Not sure but I don't think the 170 is any sharper but has a better sensor in regards to low light shooting. And of course there is the SDI out and it is lighter. I don't think you would be unhappy with an original HVX, I'm not! I was actually just downstairs playing around with my kit and still love the look. I know it's not part of your budget but boy o boy does the new FCP X really speed up the whole P2 thing. You might want to look into the P2 card reader as well. Lets you keep your desktop uncluttered and keep your camera free for use. Good luck Mike, you won't be sorry.

Cheers.
 
Just skimmed this and will give a few thoughts...

Definitely stay away from the 200 and go for a 200A or 170. I had a 200 and an A and the A is around a stop faster and is capable of making a beautiful image. The Cine V preset can be gorgeous.

Consider a 250 as you can use SD cards with an adapter.

Consider a 270 as you can use SD cards natively AND shoot 1080 in 4:2:2 on SD cards!

Another camera (I still have but don't use much at all anymore) to consider either now or later is the AF100. "Real" 1080 and the beautiful look of the 200/200A. Under controlled lighting situations I'd say the AF100 is still viable for most jobs after all these years. It only shows its weakness, awful highlight roll off, when shooting blown out highlights. Fantastic ergonomics too. Only now, many years later did Panasonic wake up and produce another camera with similar ergonomics, the EVA-1. All that and you can use inexpensive, full-frame, vintage still lenses with a speed booster. So, way better low-light sensitivity and bokeh!

I should sell my AF, speedbooster & Nikon prime set and have some Christmas spending money! Thanks for the idea, ha!
 
Hi again MDK! AND gkant!

Thanx for re-enforcing the data. 'Lighter Weight' is insignificant to me. In fact I like larger cameras. 'SDI' is that ancient configuration that's been around for years - yes? Not sure how that would benefit my circumstances? So the 'Resolution Stats' are not any better 200A vs. 170? Both still 1080 - yes? Except the 200A is definitely better in 'Low Light' (Had enuf of that with the 100B LOL) The XLR inputs (always a nice feature with those Panny's) is the same for the 200, 200A & 170- yes? Well then it gets down to price. (Not sure where the 250 fits in price wise - we'll see) The 170's are definitely selling higher. :)
 
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Another vote for the HPX-170, and using a P2 Card Reader works very well. When I was still using FCP 7, I used ClipWrap to re-wrap the files from the P2 card into ProRes, then bring them into Final Cut. ClipWrap is now EditReady and will make getting your footage into FCP 7 easy. I now use FCP X and it will ingest the P2 files natively.
 
Hey Mike,
As far as I know the 200, 200A are the same quality 1080 as far as the image goes. The 170 might be a bit sharper, maybe. But if I read your post correctly you are lookin at gettin into HD as cheaply as you can while still maintaining a certain level of quality. In my opinion moving from a 100B to the original 200 will be more than adequate, going by what your needs are. Sure a 200A or a 170 or a 250 would be better but I think what I am seeing in your posts a 200 will do you just fine;). Just my two cents.
 
Yeah ClipWrap is a great app, in that it uses all the Mac cores to transcode multiple clips simultaneously whereas I think FCP7 just does them one at a time,
used to use it all the time with FCP7 - much faster solution for transcoding footage
I know FCPX can look daunting to a long time user of FCP, I was with FCP from 2-7 and the new X interface etc kept me away for at leat a year after its release, but I dipped my toe in with a small project and the help of some great free tutorials from Izzy Hyman (you'll find them online) and have never looked back, its SO much faster to work with than FCP7 once you are familiar with it.
 
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