Cristian Mihai
Well-known member
offtopic ....GTR is by far a much more pleasing car to drive..... Porche is nice also but GTR is a killer. These japanese guys !!! They do good cars, good cameras but people still love the german ladies ;-)
F55: Buy decision : AMIRA vs F55
- Thread starter Cristian Mihai
- Start date
Nate Weaver
Veteran
Sony has amazing technology, and competitive prices.
But it's no good if too many other important details are messed up. I'm sure there's some automotive analogue too.
Amira VS F55... topic no?
This is a New York City area opinion--- your location will vary.
Unless you have it booked on a TV show that requires the F55, Amira all the way. But the price may be a problem. You really must get a quote for an equipped, ready to run rig from an approved vendor. Cameras: F55, Amira, Varicam 35, Epic Dragon. Apples to oranges, the Amira may be the most expensive of the bunch (say include high frame rate option etc etc). Abel gave me an all in price @$60K. That's with no support, like good fluid head, sticks, batteries, matte box, follow focus, a/c monitor, field monitor etc etc.
Once the numbers are fully sorted do some market research and find out which area of the market you want to populate, and find out what camera they are using- or more importantly, what camera producers are willing to pay for. In my neck of the woods it's Alexa Alexa and the Alexa. (of which I was quoted around $120k for the XT out the door).
If the price is right, producers will shoot with almost anything- but that won't likely pay the rent.
In my opinion, equipment has to solve a specific need, fill a specific purpose. You may find you don't want an expensive camera at all in the winter of 2015- wait a little longer and see which way the wind blows. For me, gear needs to pull it's own weight and make money- otherwise it's just dead weight.
I suspect the days of one camera being a runaway hit are over. For example, the Red 1, the Alexa. When they came out there was little that could compare at that price point, and early adapters made out like bandits. Those days are long over. The Varicam 35 sounds great-but will it be adapted by producers and the post community? I think it will. The Epic Dragon sounds interesting as they solve issues, but many of us still have a "better dead than Red" sentiment (inspired by the software "Red Undead" that I had to use on a number of occasions- each time the camera owner said- That never happened to me before. Of course the program named Red Undead has been floating around for awhile.)
cameras that have proven to be good but unpopular, say the C500 which I am intimately familiar with, are a dead end. Who knows where the Ursa and Cion will land.
If you simply want a good image and flexible camera, the FS7 with interface back looks very interesting this month. With the lower priced cameras the landscape seems to change every year, so be prepared for that.
If you have the budget- research and guess what will be the most desirable, in demand camera in the market you want to penetrate, and roll the dice.
And think beyond a camera. Maybe there's real demand for say, Cooke anamorphic lenses in your market. A set will cost more but will have a significantly longer market lifespan than any camera on the market. Plus you may get to meet more producers and dp's- expand your network.
This is a New York City area opinion--- your location will vary.
Unless you have it booked on a TV show that requires the F55, Amira all the way. But the price may be a problem. You really must get a quote for an equipped, ready to run rig from an approved vendor. Cameras: F55, Amira, Varicam 35, Epic Dragon. Apples to oranges, the Amira may be the most expensive of the bunch (say include high frame rate option etc etc). Abel gave me an all in price @$60K. That's with no support, like good fluid head, sticks, batteries, matte box, follow focus, a/c monitor, field monitor etc etc.
Once the numbers are fully sorted do some market research and find out which area of the market you want to populate, and find out what camera they are using- or more importantly, what camera producers are willing to pay for. In my neck of the woods it's Alexa Alexa and the Alexa. (of which I was quoted around $120k for the XT out the door).
If the price is right, producers will shoot with almost anything- but that won't likely pay the rent.
In my opinion, equipment has to solve a specific need, fill a specific purpose. You may find you don't want an expensive camera at all in the winter of 2015- wait a little longer and see which way the wind blows. For me, gear needs to pull it's own weight and make money- otherwise it's just dead weight.
I suspect the days of one camera being a runaway hit are over. For example, the Red 1, the Alexa. When they came out there was little that could compare at that price point, and early adapters made out like bandits. Those days are long over. The Varicam 35 sounds great-but will it be adapted by producers and the post community? I think it will. The Epic Dragon sounds interesting as they solve issues, but many of us still have a "better dead than Red" sentiment (inspired by the software "Red Undead" that I had to use on a number of occasions- each time the camera owner said- That never happened to me before. Of course the program named Red Undead has been floating around for awhile.)
cameras that have proven to be good but unpopular, say the C500 which I am intimately familiar with, are a dead end. Who knows where the Ursa and Cion will land.
If you simply want a good image and flexible camera, the FS7 with interface back looks very interesting this month. With the lower priced cameras the landscape seems to change every year, so be prepared for that.
If you have the budget- research and guess what will be the most desirable, in demand camera in the market you want to penetrate, and roll the dice.
And think beyond a camera. Maybe there's real demand for say, Cooke anamorphic lenses in your market. A set will cost more but will have a significantly longer market lifespan than any camera on the market. Plus you may get to meet more producers and dp's- expand your network.
davegoulding
Member
In the Washington, DC area where I live and work the F5/55 have become workhorse cameras. But I am also coming from mainly broadcast-cable TV base of clients. I was also quoted a price of $60,000 on the Amira with all of the premium licensing to get to do what it is capable of doing. Would most of my clients pay the rental on an Amira when they could rent an F55 for less money? Probably not. So I bought an F55 and OLED viewfinder for $34,000 and also bought the new Canon 17-120mm servo zoom lens. As I work mainly in the documentary world this is a good fit for me.
The F55 is not a perfect camera , what camera is? But it ticked a lot of boxes for me and my clients. The camera is capable of shooting a cable TV show in MPEG 2 or filming a feature documentary or commercial in 4K raw and everything else in between. Giving clients choices is a big plus for me.
I have also recently seen some stunning work being done with the F55 in 4K. The Netflix series "Marco Polo" jumps off the screen in 4K! One of the uncertainties of the Amira is how well it hold up in 4K with its up-rezzed picture? Nobody knows for sure. Given the huge price difference between the 2 cameras, I went with what was a better fit for me and my clients with the peace of mind knowing it will perform fantastic in 4K too.
The F55 is not a perfect camera , what camera is? But it ticked a lot of boxes for me and my clients. The camera is capable of shooting a cable TV show in MPEG 2 or filming a feature documentary or commercial in 4K raw and everything else in between. Giving clients choices is a big plus for me.
I have also recently seen some stunning work being done with the F55 in 4K. The Netflix series "Marco Polo" jumps off the screen in 4K! One of the uncertainties of the Amira is how well it hold up in 4K with its up-rezzed picture? Nobody knows for sure. Given the huge price difference between the 2 cameras, I went with what was a better fit for me and my clients with the peace of mind knowing it will perform fantastic in 4K too.
starcentral
Veteran
Big bang theory too, Michael J Fox show as well....
davegoulding
Member
At a recent Sony workshop I went to, the Sony Rep said that Panavision has purchased 75 - F55 cameras for various productions.
starcentral
Veteran
That doesn't surprise me.
Realistically what were Panavisions options for 4K live or recorded acquisition? Pretty easy to see why they would go with Sony.
Realistically what were Panavisions options for 4K live or recorded acquisition? Pretty easy to see why they would go with Sony.
AndreyBlanco
Active member
Putting in a Balance all Pros and Cons and Trying all this Cameras (Owning most of them) I came to this Firm Conclusion:
Epic Dragon > Arri Amira > Arri Alexa > Scarlet Dragon > FS7 > F55 > C500 > C300
Image Quality:
Epic Dragon = Arri's > FS7 = F55
Value For Money:
FS7
I don't really understand complains about handling the files, Premiere CC 2014 handle all this cameras without any issues on any Decent $2,000 Machine
Epic Dragon > Arri Amira > Arri Alexa > Scarlet Dragon > FS7 > F55 > C500 > C300
Image Quality:
Epic Dragon = Arri's > FS7 = F55
Value For Money:
FS7
I don't really understand complains about handling the files, Premiere CC 2014 handle all this cameras without any issues on any Decent $2,000 Machine
cuervo
Veteran
This really begs the question, on what basis did you make your observations? I mean, really, this is a pretty broad conclusion with absolutely zero supporting info.
AndreyBlanco
Active member
What you meant? In te basis of owning some of these cameras and tried all of them.
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Viddovation
Veteran
I think by claiming that the FS7 is better than the F55 with zero explanation you've raised some eyebrows around here. By all means, if a $8,000 camera is better than a $30k+ camera, I think that's something we'd all like to know more about, but on the face it sounds like a very subjective opinion rather than an objective assessment.
I believe as Dennis has pointed out, Arris and the F55 can both produce extraordinary images. You may have to work a little harder with the Sony, but there is also more flexibility. The video look people ***** about is linked to settings and lenses - there are plenty of examples of beautiful imagery from the F55 - look at The Blacklist. While Arri is the big name, the Amira isn't the "big" camera; the Alexa is. If you're doing commercials, this matters. For corporate or other uses, brand name less important than price. The F55 is more Alexa like in form factor. Two of the biggest drawbacks of the Amira to me are price and a fairly substantial weight difference. Hard to think you could go wrong with either.
cuervo
Veteran
Exactly right. Personal opinions are like bellybuttons. everyone has one.....and they're not all pretty.
greenheron
Well-known member
So now, can someone explain to me why so many big feature films are still being shot with the Arri Alexa?
All of today's cameras can look spectacular. The hardware is really, really good- the limitation is the talent behind the lens. The older hardware is really really good. Great even. But to reply to the OP's original question, I think everything depends on the market they want to attack, the approach they want to take, and financing. If TV, episodic work is the target, the OP may want to forget the Amira and consider the F55, Dragon and Varicam 35- because they may run into the mandatory 4K acquisition requirement. For indie features the camera choice is wide open. For sports programming a lot of guys use Epics for 300 fps- with Super16 PL mount lenses (and Canon superzooms- remember them?)
In my mind the question really bounces back to the OP- what market are you aiming for? Episodic, features, sports, corporate, commerical??? Depending on the local market it can be highly segmented. Some markets will be all inclusive.
In my mind the question really bounces back to the OP- what market are you aiming for? Episodic, features, sports, corporate, commerical??? Depending on the local market it can be highly segmented. Some markets will be all inclusive.