But this actually is the beginning of the end, right?

question...how Accurate has Panasonic been in the past in projecting price points on future products? Just wanna know.
 
Very. When Panasonic announces, I count on it and am ready to purchase day one. 200A hit out of the blue, was ready to order, grabbed one. HPX170 right behind it, just as projected, ordered.

Spec-Comm will be my company of choice for the AF100, believe it.
 
koolness. i ordered my dvx from Spec-Comm also...and will also pick up an AF100 from them if i can afford to. Good service from those folks :)

I'm still trying to get my 7d soon cuz i want a good still camera also....but the good thing is all the support stuff i'm gonna get for it can translate to the AF100 it seems cuz that camera's kinda small. I think i rather the modular approach and the AF100 looks to be a nice balance cuz ur still gonna need shouldermount, FF, mattbox ect
 
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jambredz said:
question...how Accurate has Panasonic been in the past in projecting price points on future products? Just wanna know.
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They're actually pretty liberal with their pricing estimates...I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

It might go down....I highly doubt it will go up.
 
ydgmdlu said:
Again, perspective. Maybe you haven't been around a lot of no-budget indie productions, but in the days when DOF adapters were popular (you know, right before DSLRs), people were used to paying several thousand dollars for a barebones kit.
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Fair enough. I work in mx/audio post. Photography & videography is a good-time hobby. And, again, I have no problem with the pricing. Sheesh, already. :Drogar-BlackEye(DBG I was genuinely curious as to who was their target demographic based on Panny's proposed pricing structure. I was aware of the recent history in regards to prosumer video technology, but thank you for the summation. :cheesy:

(I'll use more smilies so as to illuminate the lightness with which I post.)

Let me ask you, as a GH1, T2i (coming soon), and HDR-SR11 owner, will you be purchasing this proposed Panny camera? (Real question, not snarky)

ydgmdlu said:
aside from DSLRs now? Let's see...
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Why exclude what has happened in the last year from your equation, as if DSLRs being used for quality video in professional, indie productions is not real or valid? Technology and economics have changed very fast.

People continue to point out that this is a replacement for the HVX200. Maybe because of a similar price, but looking back at Joe Facchini's NAB videos, is it? We'll have to wait and see REAL specs. But P2? AVC-Intra or DVCPRO HD/50? (Panasonic themselves define AVCHD as a consumer codec.)

Look at the other product announcements from P2 readers to P2 player/recorders, etc. And then there's the pitch for the HPX370, complete with AVID's blessing on the AVC Intra codec. That's what they consider a "pro" cam.

It looks like a great product and there is NO PROBLEM with the price. Onward and upward for those who are "pros."

Ok, then.


BTW, you can order Pizza Hut breadsticks or a personal pan pizza at a Taco Bell drive-thru. At least in LA.

:2vrolijk_08:
 
ydgmdlu said:
But, as a video camera, the AF100 does things far, FAR beyond what the GH1 or any other DSLR can do. Therefore, it should cost far, FAR more. Did the GH1 do things, as a video camera, far beyond what more expensive camcorders could do? No; its only advantages were its big sensor and interchangeable lenses. Everything else was far inferior. Again, it's just like the HV40 vs. the XF300. Why should I, or anyone, cut people slack?
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You mean, "Yes, its only advantages were its big sensor and interchangable lenses." That technically is something other more expensive cameras can't do or don't have. I know you meant things like, more expensive cams have better codecs, audio features, hdmi out etc. but having a large sensor interchangable lens video camera as if that isn't substantial. Are large sensors and interchangable lenses ALL that matters? No, but it is substantial.

But anyway, you're preaching to the choir. I get that the AF100 is for a different group of people who have the GH1 (generally). I was just saying, I can understand why GH1 users feel a little shafted simply cause there are so few m4/3 video enabled cameras. Of course, this was NAB, so there wasn't going to be a GH2 release. Photokina?

ydgmdlu said:
Maybe you don't know this, but virtually all corporation-subsidiary relationships work the same way, in every sector. It's about money more than business practices or philosophies. Parent companies exist to make money off of child companies, and most of the time, that's all that they do.
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Great! Then you are right.
 
jambredz said:
question...how Accurate has Panasonic been in the past in projecting price points on future products? Just wanna know.
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HVX200 was announced to cost "under $10,000". Its actual MSRP was $5995.

HPX300 was announced to cost $10,700; street price on day one was about $8500.

HPX170 was announced to be "about $6,000"; actual MSRP was $5695.

I can't think of any case where they announced a product with an estimated price and then actually charged more for it; but they usually hit or undercut their estimated price points.
 
Barry, do you have info or thoughts about how this will interface with existing 35mm lenses, esp lenses without aperture rings (i.e Canon)? Will Panny come out with a lens for it also? A decent zoom for a 4/3 sensor sounds like it would be pretty pricey compared to the camera itself.

Lenny levy
 
It uses the standard Micro 4/3 mount, so it will interface to lenses the same way as m4/3 cameras do. For manual controls it's no issue (obviously) but for lenses that lack physical controls, yeah, it can be a problem. There are adapters that have physical knobs or pins on them that let you control the aperture on Canon EF lenses, for example.

I would love to see electronic control of the lenses, the same as would happen on m4/3 lenses. I don't know if they could engineer that into the camera, but maybe there would be an intelligent adapter developed that could "translate" m4/3 protocol into EF or Nikon F protocol, allowing aperture and AF control... that would rock. There's a business opportunity for Illya or Adaptimax right there. It could be used on the AF100 but also any GH1, GH2, Olympus, or whatever m4/3 products come out.

Yes, a decent fast zoom is going to be much more expensive. I'm hoping we'll see a 1/2" center-extraction or 2/3" center-extraction feature, and the ability to mount a B4 lens, so you could use ENG lenses and get EX3/HPX500 or better imagery, and then put on a still-camera lens and get better-than-DSLR imagery with shallow DOF. I think that would be a knockout product.
 
The Panasonic is Definitely Going to Take the Place of My A cam when it comes out.

the Downside is Im Sure the DSLRs are still Going to Rule the LOW light Stuff for a While.

the Camera from Panasonic is Purpose Built, The vDSLR which I love btw,is kind of like a
Beautiful disaster it will always be that thing we love and hate but it works as trying to pass for a Video Camera..

I ordered the New Carl Zeiss cp.2 Lenses today, let see how those puppies interchange between the Panny and canon..
 
Why should the canons rule in low light

Pixel size rules in low light

I dont fully understand the panny sensor but a 2mp chip even at 4/3 could have pixels that look like buckets compared to the thimbals of 22mp spread over FF35

Id love to see the performance and cost of a native S35 1920 or 2.5k chip - that is what I think the market lacks

Id like 2.5k to give me 1920 after a bit of post work

S
 
Barry_Green said:
HVX200 was announced to cost "under $10,000". Its actual MSRP was $5995.

HPX300 was announced to cost $10,700; street price on day one was about $8500.

HPX170 was announced to be "about $6,000"; actual MSRP was $5695.

I can't think of any case where they announced a product with an estimated price and then actually charged more for it; but they usually hit or undercut their estimated price points.
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That was the most uplifting post I've read here in quite awhile. Thanks Barry! :-)

Would you care to take a stab at the street price of the upcoming AG-AF100? Please don't say 5695. :-)
 
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Just the fact that they can shoot with such High ISO.. video Cameras as far as I know are notorious for having to have well placed lighting.
the HVX200 had this issue with low light work. the new Panny should fair better but the DSLR in a my Guess will have better low light range
 
Just glad I bought a 550D till the dust settles. It's a great image maker, both HD and still for under a grand. Now I can shoot every day and at the same time sit back and watch the fireworks on DVXuser. Great times for all of us.

Don't underestimate the power of Scarlet, unreleased it is probably the single reason Canon and Panasonic have opened the floodgates to cheap high quality gear for the masses, and earned it's place in history already.
Thanks Red, maybe you hold shares of stock in both companies.
 
f64manray said:
That was the most uplifting post I've read here in quite awhile. Thanks Barry! :-)
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I forgot one. The HMC40 was announced to be available for $3295, but when it actually was released it was $2295. :D

Would you care to take a stab at the street price of the upcoming AG-AF100? Please don't say 5695. :-)
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I would always take them at their word, that way you won't be disappointed and can only be pleasantly surprised. Therefore I expect an MSRP of $5995, and I expect a "street price" of $5995 until the initial demand is fulfilled. That's what happened with the HVX200 -- nobody discounted it because they didn't have to, it was incredibly popular and in unbelievably short supply for the first six months. After there were adequate supplies the street price adjusted down to about $5300.

So I expect something similar for the AF100. Those who "gotta have it" first, will pay full retail (which, at this time, I would estimate at $5995 based on them saying "about $6k"). Those who can wait, will benefit from lower cost. However, if you're a pro, waiting is silly -- if you can't make $300 from an AF100 in the first week you own it, you're doing something wrong. I paid off my entire HVX200 kit on its first job!
 
ROCKMORE said:
Just glad I bought a 550D till the dust settles. It's a great image maker, both HD and still for under a grand. Now I can shoot every day and at the same time sit back and watch the fireworks on DVXuser. Great times for all of us.
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Yep -- buy what you need and get to work. That way you can do exactly what you say, sit back and watch and wait for the dust to settle, while you can shoot every day on what you've got!
 
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