Building An Audio Kit

mattadamsapple

mattadamsapple

Well-known member
About a month ago when I first realized that if I wanted to make my film a reality, I was going to have to start it by doing my own sound. Like a lot of first time documentary filmmakers I made the mistake of buying one relatively expensive mic (Sennheiser MKH-60) thinking that would solve all my problems.

HUGE MISTAKE.

Luckily, Barry's DVD arrived in the mail a few days later and I brought the mic back and over the past few weeks I've built what I feel to be a great starter audio kit taking into mind all the info I learned from Barry and Matt on their excellent DVD. If you don't own it yet, do yourself a favor and buy it. It's titled "Sound for Film and Television" and it's amazingly educational.

The Sennheiser MKH-60 and with the extended warranty and tax came out to about $1700. I honestly thought that this one mic would be all I would need for my entire project!

After learning a bit more about audio, here's what I got in its place for approximately $1225

Rode NTG-3 mic $499
Oktava MK-12 mic with windscreen $261.50
Rode Blimp System $299
Sony Pro MDR 7506 headphones $95

I'm sure a lot of you pros out there already knew this info but I wanted to post this for new filmmakers because there really are affordable options for high quality gear and one shotgun mic isn't going to cut it for your production.
 
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I also must add. Experience and proper training goes much farther than dropping money on gear. Filmmakers should hire real mixers and focus on their scripts. If the script is good - it will very quickly become a larger project. ALL small budget films have terrible scripts. If it were good, someone would invest.
But you still made an alright move imho, your kit is more versatile this way. I would have gone with NTG-2 and OKTAVA. I find having only the NTG3 and the MK012 way more restricting for outdoor shoots. Your pretty well set up mic wise for indoor reflective environments but outside both of those mics will not be ideal even with your blimp. As well, yo will need an expensive shock mount for your MK012 not to mention a fish pole.
 
MontrealAudio said:
I would have gone with NTG-2 and OKTAVA. I find having only the NTG3 and the MK012 way more restricting for outdoor shoots. Your pretty well set up mic wise for indoor reflective environments but outside both of those mics will not be ideal even with your blimp.
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I think you might be confused on mic models here. The NTG-3 is a shotgun that responds very much like the Senn. 416.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=160061

Are you sure you aren't mistakenly thinking of the NT3, which is a small-diaphragm cardioid condenser?

And to generalize all small-budget films as having terrible scripts is completely unfair. There are lots of low-to-no-budget indie films out there that have fantastic scripts. It's harder to get mainstream investors and distribution when you don't have a name in the industry, no matter how good the script. A few lucky souls break through, but just because it was done on a shoestring doesn't mean that the script is bad.

I've seen lots of low-budget indie stuff with scripts that beat out a lot of the big-budget Hollywood rubbish that gets wide release.
 
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MontrealAudio said:
If the script is good - it will very quickly become a larger project. ALL small budget films have terrible scripts. If it were good, someone would invest.
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I totally understand where this is coming from but feel it's a bit unfair to stereotype like this . So many films with really great scripts struggle to get funding. Look at all the funding problems "Little Miss Sunshine" and "Squidd and the Whale" had. Those are both excellent films that lacked investors that ended up being extremely well received.
 
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Also, there's full packages for location sound available here, and built around higher end mics like the Rode NTG-3, or you could go for the Sennheiser MKH-416 as well.
Definitely listen to C2V on all things audio, he's a great resource!
 
C2V said:
Not to mention that is has absolutely nothing to do with the original post.
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Alright, clearly some of you disagree with that statement, I still feel it has some truth however there is much more to it than just abysmal scripts. In terms of funding, in Canada we have the NFB. It is fairly straight forward to get funding from them with proper planning. Many small projects quickly become funded here, and there is no reason to rush a project into production on a low budget. And yes, my apologies I was thinking NT3 not NTG3, C2V is correct. :beer:
 
But that still does not help the OP. Here's why:

Every film maker has to start somewhere. There's a learning process to getting a vision from paper to film (or tape). And with technology where it is nowadays, it's much easier to accomplish that with higher quality at a lower cost than ever before. But audio remains the bastard child. So when a beginning film maker comes to us to reflect on improving an aspect of that process, or to ask how to do that, we hold that person up by sharing our own technical insights.

Many of the film makers in the DVXUser community are not pros, and may not even have goals or aspirations beyond being a hobbyist. Yes, some of us are trying to market, but not all. And to blanket even the hobbyists with a response that tells them to forget about what they're doing because it won't help anyway... well, that's just not helpful. yes, many communities (cities, regions, states) have granting organizations that help fund indie projects, and those are great things to know. But again, for some one starting out who is still developing an awareness of the technical side, help them improve. It;s through that hands-on experience that those who do have bigger aspirations are able to better understand all sides of the project when finally immersed in a project that does have the funding and the crew.

Personally, I love watching no-budget indie stuff made by hobbyists. There's a lot of good talent out there... folks who are content to stay on the hobby level. But I still have a hard time watching poorly-produced projects... vomit-cam, bad audio, bad editing. And so many of these things cost little to improve... except audio. But the improvments make even the least of these projects more enjoyable.

Thank you, though, for mentioning the NFB. It might be helpful for other Canadian beginners to know about that... could make a good thread of its own, if you have experience with securing NFB funding. That might even draw some responses from folks in the US about similar programs in their areas. That would be an invaluable resource for DVXUser members.
 
My Oktava MK-12 came in the mail today and it's ridiculous. I can't believe how great this mic sounds. I'm pretty sure everyone should have at least one =)
 
MattAdams,

It looks like you're definitely headed in the right direction from a gear perspective. Some good pieces in your planned kit.

May I ask where you found an NTG-3 for $499? Street price is around the $699 mark. I'm assuming you found/bought it "previously enjoyed"?
 
dpFilms said:
MattAdams,
May I ask where you found an NTG-3 for $499? Street price is around the $699 mark. I'm assuming you found/bought it "previously enjoyed"?
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I actually got it brand new at B&H photo. I saw it for $699 online so I was confused as well when I saw it in the display case for $499.

On their website it's listed for $699 but there's an option to "give me a better price" and there is a phone number you can call.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563798-REG/Rode_NTG_3_NTG_3_Precision_RF_Biased_Shotgun.html

Perhaps if you call the number they will give you a code so you can get it for $499 online.

Hope that helps.
 
How many people would think adding a SD MP-1 pre-amp would be well worth the cost in a setup like this where there'd only be one mic at a time going straight into the camera?

Or would the lack of controls and metering leds just make it an unwise investment?
 
Gohanto said:
How many people would think adding a SD MP-1 pre-amp would be well worth the cost in a setup like this where there'd only be one mic at a time going straight into the camera?

Or would the lack of controls and metering leds just make it an unwise investment?
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Personally, I think the little pre-amps from SD are pretty handy. The lack of metering simply means that you have to be very attentive to gain staging. But they're great for boom ops.

That said, I'd go with the MM-1, since it has headphone return monitoring.

And that said, these are tools that I wouldn't add to a system that didn't already have a mixer of some sort. So your first, basic addition should instead be the MixPre. The next step up - and a better option all around - is the SD 302.
 
What would be the point of having a preamp or a mixer if I'm just using one mic into my camera?

I have an HVX-200 which has phantom power and audio level controls.

Sorry if that's a silly question but I'm still super new to this. Any info or reading material you could link me to would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 
Basics
Mic level (what comes out of a mic) is extremely low in nature.
Line level (much higher level) is what is recorded to an audio track.

So you need to boost the signal with a preamp somehow. The camera's built-in preamps, an external pre-amp, or a mixer. The camera's audio level controls are for the camera's pre-amps.
I've never worked with the audio of an HVX-200, but, in general, video cameras are designed for video and have pre-amps tossed in as an afterthought. Using a specific external pre-amp will almost always yeild better results, as then you're bypassing the camera's preamp and recording straight line level.
 
Gohanto said:
The camera's audio level controls are for the camera's pre-amps.
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Not entirely. Line-level signals are also controlled by the camera's input level controls.

Pre-amps in cameras are getting better. No, they still are not the best, but they have vastly improved over the years. It can still be a good idea to use better pre-amps before the camera, and send a line-level signal to the camera.

And while the MM-1 is a handy piece of equipment, like I said before, I would only add that to a kit that already had a mixer with meters. The SD MixPre would be my recommendation to the beginner who had one mic, maybe two, and needs a better solution.

Once you start dealing with a boom and a couple of wireless systems, it's time to look at the SD 302, or even the 442.
 
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