Building a sound kit

jmm

jmm

Member
Hi,

First of all sorry for my english because im french ( Montreal, Quebec, Canada ). Im working as a field sound mixer since 6 month now and im now looking to buy a kit for documentary ( around the world ), corporative, short film and small to low medium drama series.

I worked and tested a couple of mic,mixer,wireless and i made a shopping list on B&H and im looking at the used trew audio store too. Im planning to build a kit that will cost around 6000-7000$can.

So there is my list, i would like to have comments and suggestion on it.

Mixer
- Used sound device 442 ( around 2000$ used )
or
- PSC ALPHAMIX 4-Channel ENG/EFP Mixer ( 1800 new )

Recorder
- Tascam DR-680 ?
- Tascam HD-P2 ?
Multitrack by the direct out of the 442 would be really niceand a epic set-up, but powered whit 8 AA ... there is any way to power this by NP1 ? If not than ... any good stereo recorder, i dont really have experience whit recorder.

Shotgun,boompole,softies
- Kit link http://www.dvcreators.net/rode-ntg-3-shotgun-mic/ the kit no.4
description
- NtG-3 (outdoor )
- http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/349107-REG/AKG__Blue_Line_Series_Microphone.html ( indoor )
- K-Tek KE110CC


Headphone

- Sony MDR-7506

Bags

- Porta Brace AO-1X Audio Organizer Case
- Porta Brace AH-3H-MEMS Audio Harness & Belt,

Power

I want to ''power'' my entire bag whit NP1 if i can, i was planning to buy used np1 charger and used np1 batteries and used this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/440038-REG/PAG_9632_9632_NP1_Power_Adapter.html
But i never heard anything about PAG ... do you know a better distribution system ? Look at the budget too, i cant spend 1000$ on this.

Update
- I will go with Remote Audio BDS v3 Battery Distribution System

Wireless

Now this is where i blow out my budget, i want 2 good wireless kit whit a recever that could be powered by NP1 power distribution system. I worked whit lectrosonics and G2-G3 evolution kits, but i always felt cheap whit my g2 and g3 kit on some set, and they drop out sometimes whit distance 0r whit 1 wall and they dont have ''top'' display so when they are in the bag its impossible to see whats going on.... I want some good wireless, 2 kit under 2500 for the total would be nice. I was looking at the 100series of lectrosonics ... i didnt find a way to power the recevers by NP1. Any suggestion here ?


Thanks for your help

Now my total is : Total: $ 8,488.80
 
Last edited:
You actually have a pretty decent starting budget (USD $5800 - 6800). I'd suggest first reading through the stickies at the top of the audio forum. They're full of gear recommendations and comparisons, at least as far as mics are concerned.

Not in the stickies, but easily found using the "search" function, are a couple of recent threads on field recorders. If you are wanting 4-track for recording the direct outs from your 442, then the best option is the Sound Devices 744T. But that's your budget right there (about USD $4000). The Edirol R4-Pro is about 1/2 the price for 4-track recording and SMPTE Time Code.

If it turns out that milti-track recorders break your budget, there are several great, low-cost, stereo machines out there. Some have Time Code, some don't. Look at: Fostex FR-2LE, Tascam HD-P2, Fostex FR2, and at the high end the Sound Devices 702 or 702T.

I'd also recommend that you look at a Rode NTG-3 kit. You'll save $700, get a mic that gives the 416 a run for the money, and you'll end up with a full zepplin rig.

As for wireless, if you are traveling the world, forget purchasing. Legal frequency blocks change from country to country. When looking to rent, you should be able to power most any Lectrosonics or Zaxcom receiver from the NP-1 adapter... but they typically use a different connection that requires an adapter cable.
 
Thanks C2V, i was looking at the NTG-3 but didnt find out a deal like this so i went for the 416 kit, if i can save 700 im gonna put it in my wireless kit, I already needed to save money somewhere.

Since i know in witch country im gonna mostly travel, i searched over the web for some available frequency chart but i didnt find the right information. And i need some wireless kit enneways to make my corporate and others type of shooting here in Canada.

- Usa
- Canada
- Europe
- Middle Orient

So maybe i can find 1 frequency block to match most of the region i will visit... Theyre is any site that give this type of information, i searched here, on lectro website but ... ?
 
Last edited:
jmm said:
Since i know in witch country im gonna mostly travel, i searched over the web for some available frequency chart but i didnt find the right information. And i need some wireless kit enneways to make my corporate and others type of shooting here in Canada.

- Usa
- Canada
- Europe
- Middle Orient

So maybe i can find 1 frequency block to match most of the region i will visit... Theyre is any site that give this type of information, i searched here, on lectro website but ... ?
Click to expand...

US and Canada are pretty much the same, except that the 700MHz block in the US is now off-limits. So anything in the 500MHz or 600MHz blocks will serve you through North America. Not sure about the Middle East or Asia, but I do know that systems used in North America are not legal in much of Europe.

So certainly, buy wireless systems if you will need them regularly at home. Just plan to rent abroad. Sennheiser has a frequency finder by country HERE.
 
that tascam 680 looks really impressive on paper, just wish they'd get the damn thing out already! one thing you could do with that 680, which would have 2 extra audio channels, is use a denecke timecode module. of course keeping it panned right and all the other audio tracks panned left on the recorder.

for using np1's in a kit you just need to get a BDS box that will feed all your devices, yes even the 680 recorder with the proper cable, which trew could make for you.
 
I agree with C2V on the NTG-3, great mic and personally I like it better than the MKH416 with less bass in the signal.

Also, you've got a softie in that kit you listen, which isn't nearly as good as a full blimp. Here's a good kit that'll kill several birds with 1 stone
http://www.dvcreators.net/rode-ntg-3-shotgun-mic/
(Location Sound Package 4). $1000 for NTG-3, Blimp, 1 cable, and boom. Great deal imho.

The one potential issue I notice though is that lack of a hypercardiod mic for indoors. Shotguns don't handle rooms with a lot of reverb too well so I would suggest one if you're planning on doing short films. Or if you want one all-in-one mic, then I've heard the Sanken CS-3e is the best of the bunch at interior sound.
 
gohanto i included a AKG Blue Line Series Microphone Kit - Includes: SE300B Power Module and CK93 Hypercardioid Capsule in my kit for indoor, and whit is pattern its good if you have a group of person inside or juste 2 people talking.

Im now looking at the frequency chart ... dam ... I think I will be okay to buy a kit that will fit most of the country I will visit. I didnt make my choice for the recorder, wireless kit, powering option but i just updated my first post list so you can see what have changed.

Now my main problem is to find a wireless kit that will feature a recever that accept Np1 powering. I dont found that lectrosonics 100 series had this feature, and the 400 series is just out of my price range.

I found http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._ATW_1811D_ATW_1811D_Wireless_Microphone.html but this kit seem to be fuzzy and not really good by the couple of negative review. Im just asking to people here who do a lot of sound, what type of wireless kit would you recommend that match my need ? I guess some of you already have a couple of wireless kit powered by a distribution system ?
 
Last edited:
i've been using G2's with countryman b6 mics for about 2 years now and i've had pretty good results. but my next step is at least 1 lectro kit, probably this one:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/578840-REG/Lectrosonics_UCR401LMA_19_400_Series_Wireless.html
but a different freq kit depending on your needs.

it seems that lectro kits are kind of the "minimum" of pro sound kits. from my experience seems like no one will take you seriously unless you're using lectro or zaxcom. as most higher end shoots i've done they've requested lectro kits so i've rented those in those times.
 
Yea but according to the budget ... the 400 series are perfect and would be my 1st choice if i had 3000$ to put over my 6000$ for a total of ... 9000. But thats not the case, i saw these http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...1D_ATW_1811D_Wireless_Microphone.html#reviews But theyre is some bad reviews, anybody already worked whit audio technica wireless system ? Because now at this price i could buy

- 1 AA battery running lectrosonics 100 series ( 1500$ ) and 2 audio technica kit running whit the power distribution ( 1100$ ) for a total of 3 wireless kit ( total 2600 )

instead of 1 lectrosonics 400 series kit for the same price total ( 2,501 ) , and i need a minimum of 2 wireless kit.

or

two lectrosonics 400 series at 1900 each + tr50mic 225$ each = 2 lectro 400 kit for 3,800 ( and ... busted ! )

.... mmm ....

I could resolve this problem by finding a way to power up the lectro 100 series by the BDS system distribution ... that would be my dream
 
Last edited:
jmm said:
Mixer
- Used sound device 442 ( around 2000$ )

Recorder
- Tascam DR-680 ?
- Tascam HD-P2 ?
Multitrack by the direct out of the 442 would be really niceand a epic set-up, but powered whit 8 AA ... there is any way to power this by NP1 ? If not than ... any good stereo recorder, i dont really have experience whit recorder.
Click to expand...


I think the 442 is now discontinued and has been replaced with the 552 - this also has a built-in recorder, so you should not need the Tascam.

ALternatively, the SD 788T may be a good alternative recorder - if you use this with the optional CL-8 controller and/or CL-9 linear fader controller, you won't need the mixer at all.

Personally I would go for one of these options.




jmm said:
Shotgun,boompole,softies
- Kit link http://www.dvcreators.net/rode-ntg-3-shotgun-mic/ the kit no.4
description
- NtG-3 (outdoor )
- http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/349107-REG/AKG__Blue_Line_Series_Microphone.html ( indoor )
- K-Tek KE110CC
Click to expand...

I'm not really a fan of the Rode, though the NTG3 is good for the price. Personally I would use the industry standard MKH 416 or the better MKH 60. But if yo do go for the NTG3, I would put it in a Rycote S-series windshield as the best option.



jmm said:
Headphone

- Sony MDR-7506
Click to expand...

These do seem to be popular in the USA. The other option (and industry standard in the UK and Europe) is the Sennheiser HD 25-1 II (my own pair, Mk.I, are 20 years old and still going strong).



jmm said:
Bags

- Porta Brace AO-1X Audio Organizer Case
- Porta Brace AH-3H-MEMS Audio Harness & Belt,
Click to expand...

If you are in the USA these do seem the best bet. In the UK, KTS cases are excellent.



jmm said:
Power

I want to ''power'' my entire bag whit NP1 if i can, i was planning to buy used np1 charger and used np1 batteries and used this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/440038-REG/PAG_9632_9632_NP1_Power_Adapter.html
But i never heard anything about PAG ... do you know a better distribution system ? Look at the budget too, i cant spend 1000$ on this.

Update
- I will go with Remote Audio BDS v3 Battery Distribution System
Click to expand...

PAG are excellent and pretty well an industry standard. But there are other good ones as well.




jmm said:
Wireless

Now this is where i blow out my budget, i want 2 good wireless kit whit a recever that could be powered by NP1 power distribution system. I worked whit lectrosonics and G2-G3 evolution kits, but i always felt cheap whit my g2 and g3 kit on some set, and they drop out sometimes whit distance 0r whit 1 wall and they dont have ''top'' display so when they are in the bag its impossible to see whats going on.... I want some good wireless, 2 kit under 2500 for the total would be nice. I was looking at the 100series of lectrosonics ... i didnt find a way to power the receivers by NP1. Any suggestion here ?
Click to expand...

Here comes the problems, because what is OK in North America is not OK elsewhere in the world.

Lectro do seem to be popular in North America but not elsewhere. In the UK it is Audio Ltd. who seem to be the standard among sound recordists.

The Sennheiser G3 is getting popular, especially as the G3 camera receivers are now diversity (the earlier models were not diversity). The Sennheiser 2000 series (top end G3) has a very large switching window and version Gw should be OK for both the USA and the UK (works on the new licensed Ch.38 frequencies), so this may be a good option if you are working in both North America and the UK.

If you work a lot in Europe some Sennheiser G3 version E would be a good idea as they have the 863-856MHz de-regulated frequencies which are legal in every ETSI signatory country all over Europe - you can get 6 IM-free frequencies in a G3 in this band. But this version is not legal in North America, so you would have these for Europe only.

I hope this helps.
 
In my opinion you're going in the wrong direction with a lot of this gear.
You've been in the biz for 6 months.
I can tell you right now 99% of all your corporate jobs are going to be direct to camera.
95% of your documentary will be recorded direct to camera. Most of your typical ENG stuff will be recorded direct to camera...etc.
The short films you will be asked to work on you will be working for little money
and doubtful that they will pay you the rate for your recorder (you'll end up tossing it in)

My opinion - NO recorder to start. If a job comes in that you just HAVE to have a recorder
purchase it THEN. You'll have in a couple days. (savings $400 to $big bux)

Mixer- Guys are saying 442 or 552..etc You dont even have enough sources
to fully use the actual "mixer" side of this mixer. Sure the 552 is great
but start off with the SD 302. (you just saved yourself $800-1800)

Wireless - You really should have 2, so you'll have to figure out if you need to get Sennheiser G2's or Lectro 401/411's. Look at Trew, Coffey, Location sound..etc for used ones. You'll save a lot of money and in this area I think its fine buying used.

Battery Distro- Dont waste your money on the Remote Audio box. Build your own.
You can buy pigtails ends for $2-3 bux a pop. Example in one of my bags I have the remote audio distro, Ive probably spent $400+ for it with all the cabling.
In another bag I found a used NP1 battery cup that terminated into a 4pin XLR.
I bought the opposite sex XLR for a couple bux, pig tailed jacks and combined them into that XLR. Total cost was probably $40?

Bags- I used to use porta brace. Not a fan. These days Its Petrol for me.

Batteries- NEVER buy used batteries. My NP-1 NiMH batteries started dying off recently so I decided to switch over to lith's.
I decided I didn't want to pay overpriced $ for the IDX again so I picked up an "off brand" charger and batts. WAY cheaper and they are working
fantastic. If you end up going that route PM me for more details. I dont want to spend the time re-looking it all up right now.
 
Last edited:
Thanks,

I just deleted the recorder from my shopping list and decided to go whit better wireless mic.

One 100 series kit and one 400 series kit, I am also considering this mixer http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ALPHAMIX_4_Channel_ENG_EFP_Mixer.html#reviews , since i need 4 inputs ( boom + 3 wireless ) because i already have a couple of G2 that i could use as third wireless mic.

I never work whit This PSC mixer but just the LCD screen picture scare me to death, it looks so small and impossible to read depending on the angle of the bag when you are booming...

Put the fact that the mixer accept NP1 and have a distribution function build in could save me a lot of money, and the mixer itself even brand new cost less than a used sound devices 442. But i have already worked whit the 442 and loved it ...

Thanks all for your comments, my kit seem to take a good direction, thanks john buy a 552 would be too expensive and im not even talking about to 788t.
 
I used to own a PSC m4mkii
and im around the alpha mix a decent amount.

In fact the company i'll be doing a night shoot later today has one.
Lets just say I choose to NEVER use it.

While its not a bad mixer in my opinion its not in the same league as the sound devices stuff.
IMO its just not built as good quality wise. And the limiter (compressor) isnt even in the same ballpark
as the SD.

If you had to have 4 channels (which i still disagree with for a 1st mixer)
I'd look at a used 442. There are plenty out there right now being sold used because
of the new 552. Fact of the matter is..the 442 is a freaking great mixer.

There is NOTHING that is obsolete about it. Im sure they discontinued it
purely for the fact that they dont want to be selling 2 mixers in the same price bracket.

As far as your wireless go. I really think you should stick with the same model for both.
While not a huge deal you can still have issues mixing digital and analog as far as lactency goes. Not to mention sonicly a big difference.
 
John Willett said:
Here comes the problems, because what is OK in North America is not OK elsewhere in the world.
Click to expand...

That's not really true. Our blocks 23 and 24 (588.800 to 639.900 MHz) are sold both in the US and in Europe.

Lectro do seem to be popular in North America but not elsewhere. In the UK it is Audio Ltd. who seem to be the standard among sound recordists.
Click to expand...
Actually, our products are increasing in popularity rapidly in Europe. We did not have ROHS certification until the end of 2008, so there were some years when we did not have distribution there. Now we do, and we've seen a big jump in interest as a result.

The Sennheiser G3 is getting popular, especially as the G3 camera receivers are now diversity (the earlier models were not diversity). The Sennheiser 2000 series (top end G3) has a very large switching window and version Gw should be OK for both the USA and the UK (works on the new licensed Ch.38 frequencies), so this may be a good option if you are working in both North America and the UK.
Click to expand...
Those are good products - no argument.

If you work a lot in Europe some Sennheiser G3 version E would be a good idea as they have the 863-856MHz de-regulated frequencies which are legal in every ETSI signatory country all over Europe - you can get 6 IM-free frequencies in a G3 in this band. But this version is not legal in North America, so you would have these for Europe only.

I hope this helps.
Click to expand...
I also wanted to point out that perhaps the Lectrosonics SRa receiver could meet your needs, although with two transmitters, it would be a tad over your budget. You'd be looking at approximately US 1,300 for two LMa transmitters, and 2,050 for an SRa with an EXT bottom plate (can be powered externally from an NP1). As I say, it's over your budget but it would perform much better and be easier to use than just about anything else anywhere near that cost.

Respectfully,

Karl
 
Thanks for your help, im looking into saving money somewhere else to get 2 lectrosonics kit.

i will buy two LMa transmitters, i saw the Sra receiver and i looks interesting. But i wonder whats the best 1 Sra or two Lectrosonics UCR401A.

Whit the Lectrosonics UCR401A i can see my transmitters battery life and the display is pretty well done to check everything when you are recording, and the fact that since i would have 2, if one breaks, bug, fall into water, Fire get run over for no reason on set i can still use 1 kit.

But the Sra looks like a better system, but i wonder how it looks on the display for the informations of both transmitters, and if its confusing to navigate and makes frequency change for 1 channel... But i guess you just mess around and after 15minutes your ok whit the navigation. And the Only DC power ( sra ) ... if my distribution power set-up or my cable ... your like ... okay ...

So
1 Sra
or
2 UCR401A
 
Last edited:
jmm, the LCD on the SRa is smaller than that on a UCR401, but what you see is about the same. You can monitor RF level, audio level, and battery level for both channels at once. I see your point about 2 UCR401s giving you some flexibility. No argument there. Probably the main advantage of the SRa is size and weight. And lower cost.
 
The SRa would also make it easier for you to jump to the octopack if in the future you start doing reality work.
 
My 2nd SRa receiver should be here today.
I seem to be going that direction with my wireless gear.

Cost is good, but the size and weight are the selling points to me.
Having 411's all these years were fantastic but heavy suckers in comparison.

Karl, I know you guys have said it could be complicated figuring out how to get the tracking front end of the 411 into an SRa style housing but I seriously hope you guys
can figure out a way in the near future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top