Brief encounter with an F3 today....
- Thread starter RyanDeFranco
- Start date
Cbrianchester
Carbonite Member
Honestly if I were offered the AF-100 or the F3... I would take the AF-100. Why? Over-cranking. Over cranking, IMO, is probably the single most important feature in a camera for music videos, table-top product shoots, and narrative work. S-log and 10-bit are great, but no frame rates over 30fps in 1080p? No deal. Even if the F3 recorded raw video, I would still take the AF-100 right now. Frame-rates are just too important to compromise. Especially for something that costs more. I can see someone making a compromise if the F3 had 1080p over-cranking and the AF-100 didn't, for price reasons... but it's the other way around. It doesn't make any sense. What was Sony thinking? Even DSLRs can do 720p 60fps. At today's tech level for $13000, I'd expect something like variable frame rates up to 120fps. F3's framerates = Fail. I'm supprised this issue doesn't come up more around here. I guess people are just too interested in codecs and "pro" features to notice something that actually makes a big impact on the possible imagery.
But, on the other hand... The over-cranked footage of the AF-100 I saw in that demo posted here look much softer than the first few shots at regular speed. Is the AF-100 up-ressing 720p for the over-cranking? Or did they just miss focus or something?
But, on the other hand... The over-cranked footage of the AF-100 I saw in that demo posted here look much softer than the first few shots at regular speed. Is the AF-100 up-ressing 720p for the over-cranking? Or did they just miss focus or something?
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Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
We had a boy running through a grass field in 60fps shot from a helicopter that looked pretty damn good.
Cbrianchester
Carbonite Member
On the AF-100? I haven't seen many shots over-cranked from the cam yet, Just the gypsy's dancing or whatever. I assumed the softness was just a fluke in that demo. Don't get me wrong though, it wasn't bad softness... it just stood out from the rest of the footage.
RyanDeFranco
Active member
All true. Also Master Primes have the very best in Zeiss coatings for flare reduction, color reproduction and that magical Zeiss depth, the "3D" pop.... and consistency throughout the aperture range / edge sharpness.
A lens is a lens. But the F3's build quality is... well... not as much as you can squeeze in. Felt more fragile than an EX-1 (which I've seen stuntmen whack, several times, no adverse affects).
I'm just saying that SxS, the promise of 4:4:4 and true S35 do not add up to $13,000 for me, especially not when the Red has the same or better features in a similar package with much higher resolution and RAW image control. Sure, Red's 4:4:4 is hampered by the Bayer process, but when you take the framerate and build quality issues in, the F3 is just not worth the $$$...
My bottom line will always be, do it for damn cheap or do it right. DSLR and AF-100 vs Fuji Eterna, Kodak Vision3, Alexa, and Red. For a camera trying to straddle those worlds, the F3 leaves too much off the table. If I see the results of a good cinematographer's test that proves me wrong, I will happily take back everything.
As for the shill comment: full disclosure, I work for a company that rents Red cameras. As well as Canon, Sony, Hasselblad, Pentax, Phase One, etc cameras. I strongly preferred film over all formats until I saw Winter's Bone in a theater, then found out afterwards it had been shot on Red. Am I now one of the thousands of people checking RedUser everyday, anxiously hoping I'll be able to afford an Epic-S?
You betcha.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
There is absolutely no "uprezzing" going on. It's full native straight-up 1080p. They even increase the bitrate by 50% to accomodate the higher bandwidth and maintain the full image quality. If someone made a soft shot, it's their focus or something, because the overcranked footage is definitely not compromised.
As Matt said, the overcranked shots from the helicopter look great.
we got to the chopper......!!!!
:thumbsup:
with a Gyro stabilizer, hand held...
Cbrianchester
Carbonite Member
Awesome. That's what I was suspecting. Good to know.
Are these helicopter shots posted anywhere yet?
RyanDeFranco
Active member
Nice! Which stabilizer, any advice to offer? Trying to plan a shoot with a small plane soon, wish the CMR stabilizer was ready but need to find something else instead.
Also, Timur, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my first post--I meant to say that all cameras will end up as doorstops, from DSLR and AF-100 on up. Wasn't worded very well.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Paul V Doherty
Active member
Two words:
Credibility
Reputation
Without these, any new post has little merit
Credibility
Reputation
Without these, any new post has little merit
RyanDeFranco
Active member
You'll notice I only shared direct experience based on the camera's handling and controls. Nothing about IQ or color reproduction or anything one should test to determine. A small screen and 20 minutes time is not enough to make such claims, so I just wanted to reassure anyone who might be holding out for an F3 that as far as user experience goes, it's imperfect.
In my world, credibility comes from not overstepping the limits of what you know to be true. Reputation comes from offering your help to others when you can. How else can this be done online??
Dino
Veteran
Here's a very nice F3 piece shot by DP Nigel Ikam. You can see some hot fleshtones, but this was very heavy duty contrast in parts. An issue for me would be the lack of simultaneous video outputs for monitoring and external recording with this camera.
http://vimeo.com/17392465
http://vimeo.com/17392465
Joe Walker
Well-known member
So Dino, you're telling me you can't have the HDMI and HDSDI active at the same time on the F3?
Dino
Veteran
Actually, it seems that there is one HD SDI, and you can either do HDMI or analog SD downconvert at one time, not both. So, two HD digital outputs should be no problem. I'm just so used to having three HD SDI outputs on our HPX2700 that I get spoiled--and that's without using an external recorder normally.
RyanDeFranco
Active member
Wow, the sharpness on those paint tubes looks amazing.... curious to know how much of that was done in post, but this is a great example of what can be done in by pointing the camera at interesting material, shooting it flat and using simple color grading afterward...
I guess I was just a little too disillusioned when I wrote this post, I was really hoping the F3 would offer up a more operator-friendly experience. You get spoiled working with the SRII, Aaton, GH-1 and other straightforward cameras, and to me this just seemed like a step backward from the EX-1. Sorry if I offended anyone, I was just really surprised, but my expectations were way too high.
I guess I was just a little too disillusioned when I wrote this post, I was really hoping the F3 would offer up a more operator-friendly experience. You get spoiled working with the SRII, Aaton, GH-1 and other straightforward cameras, and to me this just seemed like a step backward from the EX-1. Sorry if I offended anyone, I was just really surprised, but my expectations were way too high.