Bricked EX3 due to firmware update
- Thread starter thenino
- Start date
Jay Gladwell
Active member
I'm sorry to hear that. However, that was a risk you took, which Sony has made clear. You rolled the dice and you lost.
I am surely not wanting to defend Sony but there is one golden rule: Never run firmware upgrades from an emulated/virtualized system. The emulation/virtualization adds an extra layer of things that can go wrong. When the software for Mac did not work, you should have either stopped or used standard PC. For my part, I will let the update do by my revendor, so it is his insurance's problem if he bricks it.
basspig
Veteran
I read somewhere that Sony recommends only factory updating, if your camera's firmware is 1.13 or earlier. The installation instructions don't mention that, unfortunately.
It would be useful information to find out if a correlation between 'bricked' cameras and preexisting firmware revision were found.
It would be useful information to find out if a correlation between 'bricked' cameras and preexisting firmware revision were found.
adamr316
Well-known member
I guess I was thinking there is often an option to "go back in time" with Windows System Restore in particular. Of course, after booting from a system CD.
ninofilm, I sympathize with you man and I hope eventually Sony helps you without the $$$$ but there is always a risk. You say on your blog that you followed the PDF instructions 100% but bear in mind there is a driver specific function that the software does for each OS. Running an emulation always has its quirks and Sony software is quirky to begin with as another poster said.
If any good can come from your misery it is a warning to others. DO NOT TRY THE FIRMWARE UPGRADE IN PARALLELS! Or any emulation software for that matter. From many reports if you use a Mac don't even take the risk period. Windows/PC users...the risk may be your reward.
Look, when I was upgrading my camera last week I thought it was bricked too. Luckily it wasn't and man I would be pissed if I had a $6,500 paperweight. The instructions in the PDF are kind of confusing but I've done many firmware upgrades on various hardware before so I guess I was lucky.
Sony not being thorough with their software...reminds of the whole BluRay firmware fiasco. We all should have known better with their track record, eh? Keep us updated on your plight.
Because patches change files on disk, while firmware upgrades reprogram EEPROM chips.
Jay Gladwell
Active member
Dang, that even sounds scary!
Pay a pro to do it right... $100.
Do it yourself... Free (maybe).
Pay a pro to do it who screws it up and has to fix it... $100.
Do it yourself and screw it up... Thousands of dollars!
For me, it's a no-brainer.
Sony won't take a few free minutes to reload code into your chip because their code broke it -> Sony blames customer (like customer wrote the code?) -> Sony charges customer $$$ -> Customer goes online with good case -> Sony pays $$$ x 10,000 in bad publicity -> Sony too unresponsive to react -> what happened to the great Sony most of us grew up with???
Maybe the same code team (acutally they bought it) that wrote the rootkit that Sony purchased and put into it's DVDs a while back can figure out your eprom.
Seriously maybe for a camera in the pro series they say you pay shipping and we will throw in the few minutes time to reprogram the eprom - and get to see what happened...
Maybe Sony coders wrote code for Toyota.
In an alternate universe the code team would contact you directly and as a matter of pride make it right and figure out what happened and fix it. Insulating parts of a company from each other is not healthy. Yeah some $75 dollar an hour engineer will deal with it instead of some $4 call center or $25 repair center - but what price team and company pride and all those publicity $$$...
Opinions offered above are in jest and as such are protected speech. It is strange to watch large overseas corps follow the large American corp pattern of getting big and stiff and old and being unable to change as they watch themselves devolve like GMC and the like - so sad in all cases.
Hint - Contact investor relations in Japan (Google translate?), refer to this forum. At low levels everything is tracked by how little $ they spend on each customer. At investor relations in Japan they spend $$$ that would make your head spin just on office carpets. Different mindset.
I wish you, Sony, Toyota, and GMC all the best of luck - I have owned products from all, okay no I don't own you, but you knew what I meant.
Maybe the same code team (acutally they bought it) that wrote the rootkit that Sony purchased and put into it's DVDs a while back can figure out your eprom.
Seriously maybe for a camera in the pro series they say you pay shipping and we will throw in the few minutes time to reprogram the eprom - and get to see what happened...
Maybe Sony coders wrote code for Toyota.
In an alternate universe the code team would contact you directly and as a matter of pride make it right and figure out what happened and fix it. Insulating parts of a company from each other is not healthy. Yeah some $75 dollar an hour engineer will deal with it instead of some $4 call center or $25 repair center - but what price team and company pride and all those publicity $$$...
Opinions offered above are in jest and as such are protected speech. It is strange to watch large overseas corps follow the large American corp pattern of getting big and stiff and old and being unable to change as they watch themselves devolve like GMC and the like - so sad in all cases.
Hint - Contact investor relations in Japan (Google translate?), refer to this forum. At low levels everything is tracked by how little $ they spend on each customer. At investor relations in Japan they spend $$$ that would make your head spin just on office carpets. Different mindset.
I wish you, Sony, Toyota, and GMC all the best of luck - I have owned products from all, okay no I don't own you, but you knew what I meant.
Lenilenapi
Carbonite Member
Has Sony told you what the repair cost will be?
Blit, from what I understood, it is not the code. It is the process of re-flashing EEPROM itself. It is not 100% safe, and sometimes it ends up with fried chip. Same can happen (and does happen) with BD players, set-top devices and with computers when you re-flash BIOS.
The code you get versus getting the code
The code you get versus getting the code
Cranky, I understand the actual update did not brick the camera. I should be even clearer that I was referring to the code in the update process itself. Someone at Sony, or as likely hired by Sony or code purchased by Sony updates the eprom. A good update that bricks the camera while updating is not really a good update. You are so right that the update and the code to make it happen are two different sets of code. But the user experience whether the update bricked it or the update process code bricked it is similar. I immagine the the user is still sitting there at a dead end totally reliant on the compqny that just bricked his camera. I would feel anger, despair and yes fear. Let's not mention that a camera of this kind likely actually gets used. So now the rental $$$ begin.
Things happen and yes it usually is the users fault (I offer no opinion on this case and none inferred) but certainly not always. The update process should not be designed for a software enigineer to do but really the bottom quartel of users to do.
Refering to this case it may be from running a virtual machine but that IS a normal thing these days.
But when you buy into expensive pro technology you do expect the company to be there for you in your hour of need.
Good companies can actually embarass you with the resources and care they expend on your behalf. Senior people overnighting parts at no charge, engineers on the phone with you. OR ...
I am hoping to hear the happy ending with Sony taking great care of a pro user.
Thanks for pointing out the important difference between the update, which the users will live with for a long time and the update process which users hold their breath through.
The code you get versus getting the code
Cranky, I understand the actual update did not brick the camera. I should be even clearer that I was referring to the code in the update process itself. Someone at Sony, or as likely hired by Sony or code purchased by Sony updates the eprom. A good update that bricks the camera while updating is not really a good update. You are so right that the update and the code to make it happen are two different sets of code. But the user experience whether the update bricked it or the update process code bricked it is similar. I immagine the the user is still sitting there at a dead end totally reliant on the compqny that just bricked his camera. I would feel anger, despair and yes fear. Let's not mention that a camera of this kind likely actually gets used. So now the rental $$$ begin.
Things happen and yes it usually is the users fault (I offer no opinion on this case and none inferred) but certainly not always. The update process should not be designed for a software enigineer to do but really the bottom quartel of users to do.
Refering to this case it may be from running a virtual machine but that IS a normal thing these days.
But when you buy into expensive pro technology you do expect the company to be there for you in your hour of need.
Good companies can actually embarass you with the resources and care they expend on your behalf. Senior people overnighting parts at no charge, engineers on the phone with you. OR ...
I am hoping to hear the happy ending with Sony taking great care of a pro user.
Thanks for pointing out the important difference between the update, which the users will live with for a long time and the update process which users hold their breath through.
Every time I update firmware in my BD player I have a very nervous five minutes. So far neither my BD player nor my Asus media player nor my OPPO DVD player have fried and locked up, but this can happen, and this does happen sometimes. Go to avsforum to read horror stories. The major reason is fluctuation in AC power or total loss of it. This causes almost certain lockup, so many people connect their devices to AC through UPS to protect from power loss or surge. But a chip can lock up even without power loss.
It is a dangerous game ;-)
It is a dangerous game ;-)
This is my 2 cents - not worth much 
I don't think anything is wrong about the codes (firmware). It's working on my camera and many others. Bad codes won't work.
For any firmware update, people MUST follow line by line - program, driver that needed prior to run the update and during that process. Many of us got into the habit "do it and read it later". So more likely the tool you use: computer, usb port, cable, the process could be the source of the failure.
Update firmware is total different than install the OS on computer and/or any program. Firmware is codes that stored in EEPROM. Any interrupt will kill it and nowaday we can not change the eeprom ourselves (surface mount and very small). Sometimes they need to change the whole circuit board.
However, I think Sony should have special tool to re-program the eeprom (cheapest way) or replace the eeprom (still cheap) or they need to replace the circuit board (expensive). I hope the first choice would be good for the "bricked camera".
Other thought - why don't you just send the camera to the service center - just tell them the camera is dead and you don't know why - if it's under warranty. Let them find the solution :violin:
I don't think anything is wrong about the codes (firmware). It's working on my camera and many others. Bad codes won't work.
For any firmware update, people MUST follow line by line - program, driver that needed prior to run the update and during that process. Many of us got into the habit "do it and read it later". So more likely the tool you use: computer, usb port, cable, the process could be the source of the failure.
Update firmware is total different than install the OS on computer and/or any program. Firmware is codes that stored in EEPROM. Any interrupt will kill it and nowaday we can not change the eeprom ourselves (surface mount and very small). Sometimes they need to change the whole circuit board.
However, I think Sony should have special tool to re-program the eeprom (cheapest way) or replace the eeprom (still cheap) or they need to replace the circuit board (expensive). I hope the first choice would be good for the "bricked camera".
Other thought - why don't you just send the camera to the service center - just tell them the camera is dead and you don't know why - if it's under warranty. Let them find the solution :violin:
cheezweezl
Veteran
i agree with above. i would never ever ever trust parallels for anything important. it's not a pc. it's a mac running pc emulation software. as if the risk of software crashing in windows isn't great enough already, parallels makes it way more likely. i think sony should take care of it regardless of who's fault it is so they can keep a sony customer happy and sell more cams in the future to him. however, i can see that they wouldn't want to be held responsible. they can only write the software. they have no control over what kind of hacked up computer the customer will run it on.
fyi, in the future, if you need to run pc stuff on a mac, use boot camp and install windows natively. big difference. then you are running windows on a pc. not windows on a pc running osx and some crappy emulation software. kind of a pain to reboot every time you want to run windows but the performance increase makes up for it.
fyi, in the future, if you need to run pc stuff on a mac, use boot camp and install windows natively. big difference. then you are running windows on a pc. not windows on a pc running osx and some crappy emulation software. kind of a pain to reboot every time you want to run windows but the performance increase makes up for it.
Jay Gladwell
Active member
And his blog allows absolutely no comments pointing out Sony's disclaimer and that the fault was not theirs.
GuyB
Well-known member
Interesting that the bricking of an EX1 for firmware 1.11 was through Virtualisation software on a MAC. Some said it worked but this is where it also failed. I have had a recommendation against using virtual PC enviroment on the old 1.11 update video for well over a year.... Nothing has changed