alex whitmer
Veteran
I thank you for the time and feedback. I had a lot of fun writing this, and with the generous feedback, hope to polish it up and find an interested DP.
Alex
Breakfast at Epiphany's
- Thread starter alex whitmer
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I thank you for the time and feedback. I had a lot of fun writing this, and with the generous feedback, hope to polish it up and find an interested DP.
Alex
John LaBonney
Well-known member
A pretty ambitious undertaking. Lots of characters and lots of interactions. I don't know that I buy the NASA scout bit, but it's okay, especially if this bar was in an ethereal, dreamlike world.
Wow. Lots of atmosphere here. You create a milieu that is very visual.
On my first read I felt a little lost, like I was struggling for a frame of
reference. I was wondering if I could be brought into the world more slowly, through the eyes of John who might little by little notice the strange things going on. I guess there was a lot of visual information to process which made for slow reading at first.
On second read I was fine with it.
I particularly liked Enigma's delightfully rude dweeb line. I wasn't
expecting that from her... she's a fun character.
The voices of the characters are well delineated, you've done a great job with the dialogue. Abner's musings are a nice contrast to his physical farmeresque characterisation.
Abner is an interesting guy. Certainly not boring.
Some of the feedback that follows is going to be of the what if?/plot suggestion variety. If you hate that kind of feedback (gets in the way of your own imagination), then you might want to ignore the next couple of paragraphs.
Do you have to be the author of your own epiphany? Or can somebody else affect it for you, as long as you recognize it? John gets a pickle crock slammed on his head. He sees himself in the mirror and recognizes what he and the little dog must do, so with the help of Abner he has found his true calling and can stumble out of the bar.
Which made me wonder about Abner's true calling. What if Abner similarily finds it through John? Maybe Abner really thinks his calling is building swizel stick houses, but learns through John that what he's really good at is helping people find themselves? (Maybe Enigma had knocked Abner's swivel sticks into the shadows, hinting that something was not quite right for him.) Maybe Abner has a revelation that finally gets him out of the bar? (He gets an arc too.)
Which made me think about Chang. Maybe Chang is the one person there who really knows what he's doing. He owns the place and provides the environment for people to have their epiphanies.
Another possibility is that if John doesn't have an epiphany, if he already has his **** together, maybe he is an employee of Chang's (paid in Que Sera's or whatever). It's these two guys' jobs to set people straight and send them on their way.
I found the Bogart woman's NASA SCOUT thing to be new information too late in the script, even if she kept looking at Abner throughout. I'd be more likely to buy Chang being involved with Abner's goal of setting John straight.
Okay those could be ridiculous ideas that are out of sync with your
intentions, but that's where my mind wandered to, if it's of any help.
Good job on the script. I look forward to hearing what you do with it. It's definitely filmable, so I expect you're going to get it done.
Have a good one,
- Jeff ("Charlie and Claire")
On my first read I felt a little lost, like I was struggling for a frame of
reference. I was wondering if I could be brought into the world more slowly, through the eyes of John who might little by little notice the strange things going on. I guess there was a lot of visual information to process which made for slow reading at first.
On second read I was fine with it.
I particularly liked Enigma's delightfully rude dweeb line. I wasn't
expecting that from her... she's a fun character.
The voices of the characters are well delineated, you've done a great job with the dialogue. Abner's musings are a nice contrast to his physical farmeresque characterisation.
Abner is an interesting guy. Certainly not boring.
Some of the feedback that follows is going to be of the what if?/plot suggestion variety. If you hate that kind of feedback (gets in the way of your own imagination), then you might want to ignore the next couple of paragraphs.
Do you have to be the author of your own epiphany? Or can somebody else affect it for you, as long as you recognize it? John gets a pickle crock slammed on his head. He sees himself in the mirror and recognizes what he and the little dog must do, so with the help of Abner he has found his true calling and can stumble out of the bar.
Which made me wonder about Abner's true calling. What if Abner similarily finds it through John? Maybe Abner really thinks his calling is building swizel stick houses, but learns through John that what he's really good at is helping people find themselves? (Maybe Enigma had knocked Abner's swivel sticks into the shadows, hinting that something was not quite right for him.) Maybe Abner has a revelation that finally gets him out of the bar? (He gets an arc too.)
Which made me think about Chang. Maybe Chang is the one person there who really knows what he's doing. He owns the place and provides the environment for people to have their epiphanies.
Another possibility is that if John doesn't have an epiphany, if he already has his **** together, maybe he is an employee of Chang's (paid in Que Sera's or whatever). It's these two guys' jobs to set people straight and send them on their way.
I found the Bogart woman's NASA SCOUT thing to be new information too late in the script, even if she kept looking at Abner throughout. I'd be more likely to buy Chang being involved with Abner's goal of setting John straight.
Okay those could be ridiculous ideas that are out of sync with your
intentions, but that's where my mind wandered to, if it's of any help.
Good job on the script. I look forward to hearing what you do with it. It's definitely filmable, so I expect you're going to get it done.
Have a good one,
- Jeff ("Charlie and Claire")
This is so weird, I wrote and shot a 48 hour film fest piece that is very similar to this. Called the "Twilight Bar and Grill."
I think this works really well. It's a tone piece, and relies heavily on execution. The dialogue is well written, it's distinct and each character has flavor.
The ending feels a little too neat. I think that business card while explaining to the audience might be too grounded. I just mean that most of this piece exists in a surreal framework, and then your ending departs from that and brings it to a watered down version of what feels like our reality. I would stay in that original surreal tone. Maybe Abner's epiphany is that he can never leave that bar.
I dunno, I'm feeling this piece but think you can tweak that ending, try a different direction and keep playing with it.
I think this works really well. It's a tone piece, and relies heavily on execution. The dialogue is well written, it's distinct and each character has flavor.
The ending feels a little too neat. I think that business card while explaining to the audience might be too grounded. I just mean that most of this piece exists in a surreal framework, and then your ending departs from that and brings it to a watered down version of what feels like our reality. I would stay in that original surreal tone. Maybe Abner's epiphany is that he can never leave that bar.
I dunno, I'm feeling this piece but think you can tweak that ending, try a different direction and keep playing with it.
alex whitmer
Veteran
There seems to be a consensus that the Nasa Scout thing really doesn't work. I hate to admit to a cop-out, but I just couldn't come up with something better at the time.
I love the twist at the end of Abner not being able to leave. I'm going to play with that.
Should Bogart Woman go completely, or is she somehow salvageable? I like a lot of her juke-box tap and smoke rings. Adds atmosphere.
Hey Isaac, I'd love to see that if it's around anywhere!!
Alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
I love the twist at the end of Abner not being able to leave. I'm going to play with that.
Should Bogart Woman go completely, or is she somehow salvageable? I like a lot of her juke-box tap and smoke rings. Adds atmosphere.
Hey Isaac, I'd love to see that if it's around anywhere!!
Alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
mjjason
Well-known member
Completely different piece to the other scripts out there and I think for the better actually. I have a similar concept to this, similar to Twin Peaks and all that freakiness. I think you developed a very strong atmosphere within the bar with the shadows and light. That would make for some fantastic visuals especially in Black and White with interspersed color. The visual look would add to the tone and conversations.
The one thing I think that might hurt this is that in some sense this too existential for most people. This is like an art film or student short. While that is not an issue in itself those type of films don't play all that well. But that is a commercial/marketing critique as opposed to an artistic critique.
Regarding Bogart Woman, I think she adds to the mood though I would agree that the Nasa thing seems odd. I think just having her as a character would be great. You would just have to redesign her role.
Overall, good script with great characters.
The one thing I think that might hurt this is that in some sense this too existential for most people. This is like an art film or student short. While that is not an issue in itself those type of films don't play all that well. But that is a commercial/marketing critique as opposed to an artistic critique.
Regarding Bogart Woman, I think she adds to the mood though I would agree that the Nasa thing seems odd. I think just having her as a character would be great. You would just have to redesign her role.
Overall, good script with great characters.
To echo the sentiments of others, I think the dialog is excellent. The characters have distinct voices and verbage and the banter is clever while delivering necessary exposition and moving the plot forward.
I like the characters. They're distinctive without being caricatures, and their dominant traits compliment one another's. For example, John's terse dismissiveness is a nice foil to Abner's verbose philosophizing.
I agree with Isaac about the ending: it detracts from the surreal tone and mood of the whole piece. I enjoyed the strange, abstract nature of the characters and their actions. The problem with the twist is that it grounds the supernatural world of the bar in a familiar reality. It's interesting because it's kind of a the opposite of deus ex machina: here, you're introducing plain, logical motivations into a story ruled by strange, supernatural rules. And it doesn't work for me because it prompts questions about those supernatural rules, such as where does the white light come from, who locks the door and decides when someone has an epiphany, how do shadows follow people around, where did the man get blue paint from, etc. The ending seems to mock the audience's suspended disbelief by trivializing the situation.
Although I do like the premise, I was somewhat let down by the definition of epiphany as the discovery of one's true calling. Such a narrow definition detracts from the mysterious and abstract nature of my initial impression about what epiphany means in the story (based on the great line about silence eating its children). As important and elusive finding out one's true calling is, it is also a fairly mundane decision, when compared to insights about god or human nature or even quantum physics. I feel like Dick's lines about fast food trash are somewhat of a red herring, making the reader expect something much more magical and mysterious than "I should be an astronaut instead of a rambler."
Lastly, I think you could find a better use for Abner's drink umbrellas and stir sticks. For example, maybe he needs the umbrellas to make tiny beach resorts for tiny humans. Or something. I think it needs to be something more bizarre or spectacular to warrant the shock and wonderment John has when he learns what Abner does with the umbrellas and sticks.
All in all, this script is really daring and original and I think if you rework the ending it would be even better. Great job.
I like the characters. They're distinctive without being caricatures, and their dominant traits compliment one another's. For example, John's terse dismissiveness is a nice foil to Abner's verbose philosophizing.
I agree with Isaac about the ending: it detracts from the surreal tone and mood of the whole piece. I enjoyed the strange, abstract nature of the characters and their actions. The problem with the twist is that it grounds the supernatural world of the bar in a familiar reality. It's interesting because it's kind of a the opposite of deus ex machina: here, you're introducing plain, logical motivations into a story ruled by strange, supernatural rules. And it doesn't work for me because it prompts questions about those supernatural rules, such as where does the white light come from, who locks the door and decides when someone has an epiphany, how do shadows follow people around, where did the man get blue paint from, etc. The ending seems to mock the audience's suspended disbelief by trivializing the situation.
Although I do like the premise, I was somewhat let down by the definition of epiphany as the discovery of one's true calling. Such a narrow definition detracts from the mysterious and abstract nature of my initial impression about what epiphany means in the story (based on the great line about silence eating its children). As important and elusive finding out one's true calling is, it is also a fairly mundane decision, when compared to insights about god or human nature or even quantum physics. I feel like Dick's lines about fast food trash are somewhat of a red herring, making the reader expect something much more magical and mysterious than "I should be an astronaut instead of a rambler."
Lastly, I think you could find a better use for Abner's drink umbrellas and stir sticks. For example, maybe he needs the umbrellas to make tiny beach resorts for tiny humans. Or something. I think it needs to be something more bizarre or spectacular to warrant the shock and wonderment John has when he learns what Abner does with the umbrellas and sticks.
All in all, this script is really daring and original and I think if you rework the ending it would be even better. Great job.
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alex whitmer
Veteran
Thanks bt,
All great thoughts. I am definately going to shred this and rework a number of points, especially the ending. Seems two little words - Nasa Scout - really killed this thing.
alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
.
All great thoughts. I am definately going to shred this and rework a number of points, especially the ending. Seems two little words - Nasa Scout - really killed this thing.
alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
.
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jasonthewho
Veteran
Really liked that you were unafraid to write something so abstract. Lots of interesting background characters, in addition to solid central characters. I found some of the action around the Abner/Enigma sequence at the end of the script to be so terse as to be difficult to understand. I think everything else has already been said. I'd love to see this made, pulling off the visuals effectively would be very challenging and impressive.
seansshack
Well-known member
OK. David Lynch called and he wants his screenplay back!!!
This is by no means an insult. On the contrary. Very well structured and written. I found myself asking "where did the idea come from?".
Also (like other readers here), not sure if the NASA element works well enough. Also didn't like the last two lines. Didn't gel for me (but I have have missed the point/gag as the piece is very different).
Structure and formatting are both above the best of the selection here (I have using above average in reviews!!!). Dialogue and characters and well drawn. Love the line "I can’t recall the last time I saw a dog checking out another dog’s face."
Anything else I have to add, have already been added (and well reviewed) by others here.
I will end by saying this could be a very interesting short. With the right director I think it could really help get your exposure/notices.
Best of luck with it.
This is by no means an insult. On the contrary. Very well structured and written. I found myself asking "where did the idea come from?".
Also (like other readers here), not sure if the NASA element works well enough. Also didn't like the last two lines. Didn't gel for me (but I have have missed the point/gag as the piece is very different).
Structure and formatting are both above the best of the selection here (I have using above average in reviews!!!). Dialogue and characters and well drawn. Love the line "I can’t recall the last time I saw a dog checking out another dog’s face."
Anything else I have to add, have already been added (and well reviewed) by others here.
I will end by saying this could be a very interesting short. With the right director I think it could really help get your exposure/notices.
Best of luck with it.
alex whitmer
Veteran
All kind words, thank you Sean.
The Nasa deal is for sure out. Need to come up with a worthy ending. Love the Idea of Abner stuck inside, be it by epiphany or otherwise.
This contest has been really interesting so far. Some really good endings on so-so stories, and and some decent stories with so-so endings. Only a handful have really nailed the whole thing (mine NOT included).
I think it's going to be a tough call on which to vote for. I'm still undecided.
alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
The Nasa deal is for sure out. Need to come up with a worthy ending. Love the Idea of Abner stuck inside, be it by epiphany or otherwise.
This contest has been really interesting so far. Some really good endings on so-so stories, and and some decent stories with so-so endings. Only a handful have really nailed the whole thing (mine NOT included).
I think it's going to be a tough call on which to vote for. I'm still undecided.
alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
seansshack
Well-known member
I know what you mean. From what I read so far, it will be hard to select one as the overall best.
But considering the prize, I guess we have to select the script that may make the best short film (in terms of story and visuals) - but I guess budget will also be a deciding factor.
Would make for a headache for the squad if an expensive short was selected.
But considering the prize, I guess we have to select the script that may make the best short film (in terms of story and visuals) - but I guess budget will also be a deciding factor.
Would make for a headache for the squad if an expensive short was selected.
Captain Pierce
Veteran
This has been mentioned before, but... the vast majority of the time, you've got these great descriptions, but then you're just sort of dropping "Bogart Woman" and "30's Woman" in there without much of anything. Given the obvious care that went into describing the other characters, this really stands out. (This probably doesn't mean a lot coming from a guy who had practically zero character description in his whole script, but at least I'm consistent. 
)
You know, I may be the only person reading this who didn't have a big problem with the "NASA Scout." I mean, if the whole point of the place is that you can't leave until you have an epiphany about what you're supposed to be doing with your life, then what good is it if the person who can make that career actulaly happen for you isn't there? Given the surreal nature of the whole piece, I think it would be a let-down to have John have to leave the bar and go apply to NASA himself. Maybe "Scout" is not the right terminology to use, but I definitely think somebody at the bar needs to represent NASA.
) You know, I may be the only person reading this who didn't have a big problem with the "NASA Scout."
I mean, if the whole point of the place is that you can't leave until you have an epiphany about what you're supposed to be doing with your life, then what good is it if the person who can make that career actulaly happen for you isn't there? Given the surreal nature of the whole piece, I think it would be a let-down to have John have to leave the bar and go apply to NASA himself. Maybe "Scout" is not the right terminology to use, but I definitely think somebody at the bar needs to represent NASA.
alex whitmer
Veteran
Thanks for the read CP. Good points on the Bogart Woman and 30s woman. I think some took 30s woman to mean 1930s, not her age. I gues the Bogart thing tripped that up a bit.
I like your thoughts on the NAsa issue as well.
alex
I like your thoughts on the NAsa issue as well.
alex