Brand New S!H with grain issues in lower light!

tokun1 said:
Hi Razz, thanks for the reply. I ended up putting it on the rails with a lens support. I agree and I understand, however I'm getting noise at 1600!...I mean, my GH5 performs better than this camera which is VERY confusing and frustrating. I know how to light, but lots of times when shooting corporate style video and getting B-roll your moving from room to room and don't have time to light the room, I got the s1h hoping it would help. IDK what to do at this point.
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Never used this camera, can't comment on the low light performance. The noise of the images doesn't seem that bad but I'm coming from a live event wedding reception point of view. Don't take offense because it sounds like you have lots of experience but there is no substitute for lights. I've noticed people are more willing to spend money on the camera than other things that are equally important. Ie only as strong as your weakest link. Throw in an Aperture 300d, umbrella or pointed at the ceiling is going to eliminate noise issues. I've seen interviews filmed with a tiny 1/3 inch sensor 8 bit color camcorder look great because they were lit properly. I don't think throwing money blindly at ff cameras is always the solution. The A7sIII is the low light king but if your expectations are out of line with reality you could also be disappointed by that camera too...
 
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You should definitely get better noise performance than with the GH5. I recommend trying HLG instead of v-log for low-light scenes. The native ISOs in HLG are 400 and 2500.

Also - I can't see the stills that you upload well enough to evaluate the noise. Can you put them on Google drive or dropbox and post a link next time?
 
Did the OP ever say HOW he is grading the V-log? Or HOW he is exposing? Those are critical parts of the equation that I don't think have even been addresed in this thread. Furthermore, expecting 8-bit 4:2:0 LOG to look good is a pipe dream. Why even waste time testing it? Choose a 10-bit codec, expose correctly, grade in Resolve, and then examine the results. That will tell you whether the camera is at fault or not.

Personally, I think the S1H grades out beautifully and is excellent in low light. I've sold some indoor stock footage from the camera that could never have been shot with other cameras that would have drawn too much attention. It is a workhorse camera indoors and out.

 
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The HLG looks great!...so, after further testing the issue was shooting 8bit, I switched to 10 bit V-log and it's much better after lighting the scene not going over the 640 ISO native.
 
Great video Doug! Yes, I am well aware of the limitations of 8-bit recording, I'm talking about running and gunning style videography where i do not have the time to light a scene and was hoping that the camera will be more solid at low light if the Dual Native ISO is 4000.
 
I haven't been using my S1H lately as much as I was last winter, but I am always impressed with the image quality when I sit down to grade the footage. There is something "creamy" about the picture that I really like. I don't know how else to describe it. If someone can't get a good picture out of the S1H it is always going to be due to operator error in one fashion or another.
 
BTW, I encourage anyone with an S1H to experiement with V-LOG and come to their own conclusions, but I actually prefer not to shoot with LOG. I like the results I get by coming as close as I can to a finished image onboard the camera and then putting it through Resolve for the final polishing. Obviously I don't have as much leeway in post to change the look, but I don't need to change the look because I already graded the video onboard the camera at the time of shooting to get the look I want.
 
got another question for you, why is VFR grayed out when shooting anything above 1080? I have it set to 4k and is says "VFR available". Thanks!
 
That's a good point Doug, I just moved up from my GH5, and want to take advantage of the better dynamic range in the S1H. But, here is a question for you, why is VFR grayed out when trying to shoot anything above 1080? I'm choosing a 4k mode that says, "VFR Available". Thanks for your help!
 
I finally figured out you can use VFR but you have to switch to 35mm view from Full Frame so it crops, that's a bummer!
 
tokun1 said:
I finally figured out you can use VFR but you have to switch to 35mm view from Full Frame so it crops, that's a bummer!
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Yes, that is the answer. As I say on my master class, "Full-Frame 4K" and "VFR" can never be used together.

Also the recording format must be:
• MOV or AVCHD
• 8-bit
• 4:2:0
• LongGOP

I love shooting VFR, so these limiations are another reason why I don't generally shoot LOG. The 4K VFR footage won't hold up to grading.
 
Hey Doug do you happen to know the lens weight limit for the Lumix s1h? I'm using a 2 1/2 lb set up with lens and PL mount. Thanks!
 
tokun1 said:
Hey Doug do you happen to know the lens weight limit for the Lumix s1h? I'm using a 2 1/2 lb set up with lens and PL mount. Thanks!
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I don't know what the official limit is, but 2.5 lbs. should be no problem at all. I've used the S1H with my PL Cine-Xenars a couple times and they are over 5 lbs. But I normally prefer to use support anyway because of balance. There is really no way to get the camera balanced on any of my tripods with a heavy lens if the quick-release is mounted to the camera. I either use rods or lenses that have a foot and I rarely attach a tripod quick-release to the camera body itself.
 
Great thanks glad to know it can handle some weight. Here's another one for you if you don't mind, when I'm using an external monitor through HDMI, and then I close the LCD screen the exposure meter changes completely from a number to flat bars, it is strange. I've been up and down the manual and can't figure that one out, perhaps you've had that experience with the camera? Thanks again!!
 
tokun1 said:
Great thanks glad to know it can handle some weight. Here's another one for you if you don't mind, when I'm using an external monitor through HDMI, and then I close the LCD screen the exposure meter changes completely from a number to flat bars, it is strange. I've been up and down the manual and can't figure that one out, perhaps you've had that experience with the camera? Thanks again!!
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Sorry, I can't help you with that one. I don't use an external monitor on my S1H and I think the exposure meter you are referring to is for photos and not video. I never use my S1H for photos and would have no use for the exposure meter if does work in the video mode. In fact, if it had been possible, I would gladly have paid a premium to have all the photo-related clutter stripped from the camera and have an S1H-V that could only shoot video.
 
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Ha you've come around.

Doug Jensen said:
Sorry, I can't help you with that one. I don't use an external monitor on my S1H and I think the exposure meter you are referring to is for photos and not video. I never use my S1H for photos and would have no use for the exposure meter if does work in the video mode. In fact, if it had been possible, I would gladly have paid a premium to have all the photo-related clutter stripped from the camera and have an S1H-V that could only shoot video.
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Sorry it was late, we had this exchange before where I wanted to pay a premium to remove all photo capabilities jokingly (but only half) so that the clients stop asking for stills and you said quite correctly tell them its not set up for that.
But what I think is that there is simply a new customer that needs tobe recognized- of all the S1H users I know not one of them uses the camera as a still camera, there is no need to offer it as a Hybrid (the S1 already gives the hybrid user everything he or she might want) I think there is a pro level user that simply wants an uncompromised cinema camera in that specific size-formfactor without the need for photo capabilities and would even pay more than 4K for some extra features like maybe an electronic ND and such. What Im saying is none of us are going out there to buy a hybrid.what we are buying is a FS7/9 c300@(3) replacement in many ways.


Doug Jensen said:
Come around to what? I have no idea what you are talking about.
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icarusfilm said:
Sorry it was late, we had this exchange before where I wanted to pay a premium to remove all photo capabilities jokingly (but only half) so that the clients stop asking for stills and you said quite correctly tell them its not set up for that.
But what I think is that there is simply a new customer that needs tobe recognized- of all the S1H users I know not one of them uses the camera as a still camera, there is no need to offer it as a Hybrid (the S1 already gives the hybrid user everything he or she might want) I think there is a pro level user that simply wants an uncompromised cinema camera in that specific size-formfactor without the need for photo capabilities and would even pay more than 4K for some extra features like maybe an electronic ND and such. What Im saying is none of us are going out there to buy a hybrid.what we are buying is a FS7/9 c300@(3) replacement in many ways.
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I agree with pretty everything you have said, but we've always been on the same page on this topic. I have not changed my opinion or come around.
My advice to tell the client that the camera is not setup for stills is just a workaround until we get the stripped camera that we really want. Carry on.
 
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