Brand New S!H with grain issues in lower light!

tokun1

tokun1

Well-known member
Hello Group!

I just became the proud owner of a brand new Lumix S!H after selling my GH5s this week. I thought this S1H was a low light king but I'm finding I'm having terrible grain issues when shooting Vlog in addition to the other profiles going anywhere near 4000 ISO ,which, I read was the other native ISO on this camera next to ISO 640. I've binged watched YouTube video after YouTube video on setting up the camera for film making and video, I've got all of the settings correct, but perhaps there is something I'm missing as to why this is so bad in low light. It looks fine when I add some light of course, I know lighting. However, I do a lot of corporate style video and moving around a lot shooting b-roll and I desperately need a camera that is good in lower light settings (I don't like always having a light mounted on the camera, and if your a pro like me, you HATE the look of direct light on anything, we are NOT trying to look like the news. (no offense to news shooters, I have friends who are news photogs, they have no choice but run and gun.)

I'm shooting with a Rokinon Xeen CF 50mm 1.5 PL Mount / Sigma 14-24 L mount f2.8 and experiencing the same issues.

I would absolutely give a limb you for your help! Or make you a great big hero sandwich send it to you, overnight express!

Ahhhhh! I'm so frustrated with Panasonic!

Thank you very much for your help!
 
Are you shooting "near" 4000 or at 4000?

Also, the camera has different native ISO settings based on what profile you are shooting: "In normal mode, the two native ISO are 100 and 640 (max. ISO: 204800). If you decide to shoot in V-Log/V-Gamut, the two native ISO jumps to 640 and 4000 (max. ISO: 51200). Finally, in HLG mode, the native ISO are 400 and 2500 (max. ISO: 204800)."

Lastly, what are your noise reduction settings in-camera?

And can you post a sample still frame and say what ISO and picture profile it was shot with?
 
Have you ever used any form of LOG before? (Asking because all LOG is/can benoisy and requires the addition of contrast to help hide the noise.)

As far as the other profiles, I'm not sure...but I didn't find the S1 to be too great in low-light, FWIW.

Did you grade any of your V-Log footage?
 
Hello ahalpert, thanks so much for your reply!

Shooting with no change in noise reduction.

Here are some photo samples.

f4 4000.jpgf2.jpg
 
Hi Norbro, thanks for the reply. Yes, I used V-log on the GH5 and GH5s often, but they performed better than this brand new S1H surprisingly. The Gh5s had lots of noise issues that why I sold it, lots of people were complaining about it. I could NOT even shoot VFR without noise on the GH5s.

Here is a quick photo I took of before and after a very quick grade.

f2.jpgf4 4000.jpg
 
IMO, I think there are very few cameras that will look as clean as you're hoping at 4000.

You're most likely doing everything correctly, and it's just simple underexposure that is pronouncing the noise. Very common...

Have you ever tried an a7SII? (Just wondering what you thought if you did.)

As far as VFR, noise is even worse in those kinds of modes. It's rare any VFR/HFR is clean from most cameras.
 
Could you upload the stills to google drive or dropbox and link? They're coming in at too low a resolution here to properly evaluate.

Also - did you shoot the v-log in 8-bit?

It sounds like you're shooting without any noise reduction (the default setting in v-log), which may partly explain its poor performance relative to other cameras that typically use noise reduction by default.

V-log may also not be the best choice for low-light shooting. Here's what Matt Allard of Newsshooter (an S1H owner himself) wrote about it:

"In V-Log it is set at the lowest default level of 0. You can adjust it up to +10. On all the other picture profiles it also defaults at 0, but you can adjust it from -5 to +5.

I would use the noise reduction very carefully if you plan on having it on. Even Panasonic clearly states that Increasing the effect may result in a slight drop in picture resolution.

To cut a long story short, you are better off staying clear of V-log when shooting in low light conditions. You get much cleaner results using something like HLG"
 
No only been a Panasonic guy for 20 years, I was ready to return the camera and switch tonight! LOL. I just thought it would be clean at the native ISO, thanks for your replies!! Much appreciated!
 
I compressed the photos to post together, my fault. Yes, I was shooting 8-bit 1080 for testing the camera, I normally shoot 4k 10 bit for client work. Yes I just left the NR at "0". I thought this camera will be my saviour, but I was wrong. Thanks for the replies and tips I will try to get a photo up with better resolution as go through more tests. Take care!
 
oh btw, do you happen to know the weight limit for a lens for the S1H?...I could not find any information on that topic. This Rokinon and PL mount is heavy. Thanks!
 
tokun1 said:
oh btw, do you happen to know the weight limit for a lens for the S1H?...I could not find any information on that topic. This Rokinon and PL mount is heavy. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Does your PL adapter have a support foot on it? Using the support foot on an extended base plate or short rails isolates the lens and mount weight from the camera mount.

Regardless of gain settings, high ISO settings starve the sensor of light. Optimum sensitivity for silicon based sensors falls in the 200-800 ISO range. Everything else is playing games. Shooting the lowest possible ISO you can for the lighting conditions and adjusting EI compensation for highlights will get the widest DR and lowest noise with most cameras. Dual gain helps if you are on the base ISO for each gain setting. But you still lose sensor DR with the higher gain.
 
Hi Razz, thanks for the reply. I ended up putting it on the rails with a lens support. I agree and I understand, however I'm getting noise at 1600!...I mean, my GH5 performs better than this camera which is VERY confusing and frustrating. I know how to light, but lots of times when shooting corporate style video and getting B-roll your moving from room to room and don't have time to light the room, I got the s1h hoping it would help. IDK what to do at this point.
 
Here is a screen shot at ISO 1600, 1080 V-Log 8bit 24fps. No color grade, look at all of that grain.

ISO 1600.jpg
 
Don't use auto. Try the second native ISO at its base.

And did you try any 4K tests?
 
Gotcha, I never use anything auto (except white balance when running around), have not yet on the 4k tests, I'm sure it will grade much better at 10 bit 422.
 
I don't know about the S1H, but in general a lot of cameras produce better motion pictures at their native resolutions (including less noise). It's worth a test to see and compare.
 
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