Brand New Panasonic AJ-HPX2700 for $19.5k?!?

puredrifting

puredrifting

Major Contributor
Hopefully this wasn't already posted on the other threads, I looked but didn't see it.

A fellow DVX User just notified me that he just bought a brand new 2700 for $19,500.00!?! I checked the Panasonic site and lo and behold, it is true! Holy smokes, Panasonic is tempting me like nothing ever has before. The offer is good through December 31, 2009. Perhaps Jan can jump in here and expand on details? It is the same as the 3700 offer was, you need to trade in a certain type of camera, but that is a no brainer, you can buy Betacams on Ebay for $300.00 that are eligible.

Half price on new a 2700. Wow, Hell has definitely frozen over. Not sure if a lot of you who only use lower end cameras realize how incredible this camera is. I would personally prefer this camera over the 3700 as it has VFR, which is important to my work.

Go forth and purchase. If this isn't an economic stimulus package, I don't know what would be.

Dan
 
That's fantastic. IQ on the 2700/3700 is just super. Panasonic must be desperate to move these cameras to recoup their costs.
Unfortunately I only have about $12K in assets. Not nearly enough. They should introduce a 4/3 chipped camera around $9K before RED really ramps up Scarlet production. That would hit the sweet spot I think to really boost their sales. Timing is everything!
 
But Dan, don't you have a 5D? Surely that's all the camera anyone would ever need, right? <sigh with me...>

Anyway, back on topic:

That *is* a smokin' deal. The 2700 is fantastic, and at that price ... man...
 
Although I'm sure that is an incredible deal, it remains far and away beyond my reach. The market where I live is so saturated and the economy so depressed that such a camera would be a luxury item indeed. I'd be more likely to rent that camera than attempt to own it.

fwiw... I don't believe most people here are under the impression that a 5DII or 7D is "all the camera they would ever need". Rather, for now, it may be all they can afford. <sigh...>
 
I think that the only people who should own a camera like this are doing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of business. Great, great camera at an amazing price, but add a killer lens, support and batteries and you are easily double the price. Not very many people can afford $40 to $50k for a camera package.

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
Hopefully this wasn't already posted on the other threads, I looked but didn't see it.

A fellow DVX User just notified me that he just bought a brand new 2700 for $19,500.00!?! I checked the Panasonic site and lo and behold, it is true! Holy smokes, Panasonic is tempting me like nothing ever has before. The offer is good through December 31, 2009. Perhaps Jan can jump in here and expand on details? It is the same as the 3700 offer was, you need to trade in a certain type of camera, but that is a no brainer, you can buy Betacams on Ebay for $300.00 that are eligible.

Half price on new a 2700. Wow, Hell has definitely frozen over. Not sure if a lot of you who only use lower end cameras realize how incredible this camera is. I would personally prefer this camera over the 3700 as it has VFR, which is important to my work.

Go forth and purchase. If this isn't an economic stimulus package, I don't know what would be.

Dan
Click to expand...

What always surprises and amuses me is when people say something like this. Just think for a moment what kind of profit Panasonic or other manufacturers have on products like this, then think how long they have been selling said product and what kind of money they have made with it.
They always sell high end / pro gear with a much greater profit margin than consumer gear. No need to wonder when the price drops drastically.
 
Of course they make high profits per unit but when you only sell a few hundred or perhaps thousand units worldwide, what else would you expect? How many people are there out there who buy broadcast cameras? Fewer than you think. You would be shocked as far as digital cinema cameras like the Thomson Viper or Sony F35, they sell only about 100 units worldwide over a period of years. If they don't don't make it on profit per unit, why be in the business? The tools we use are not mass market to bring down cost and never will be although mass market appeal cameras like the 7D are getting amazingly good for almost no cost. But that is because there are millions of still photogrphers worldwide who will buy the camera. That, of course, brings in economy of scale. There is no economy of scale for broadcast video cameras, it a total custom kind of specialty item worldwide.

Regardless, there is no other source to buy a P2 camera with these features other than Panasonic, so if you want it, you have to pay. Half price is still unprecendented, nobody did this ten years ago, ever, even on b-stock or discontinued models.

Dan
 
Who the hell would buy any new broadcast camera from panasonic when they spit in your face with a half off price tag not even a year later. IMO this spells out the end for "high-end" panasonic ENG cameras. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! (Actually, just shooting your customers!)

Ok Im good now! ; )
 
Yeah, bro, I'm right there with you. I long for the days when prices went UP on electronics, instead of down. And sales? Pah -- why would anyone ever want a sale? If I ever bought anything, from any manufacturer, and they had the nerve to put it on sale six months later, why, I'd sue them and that'd be the end of them for sure. Nobody would ever trust anyone who dared put their stuff on sale. Once I buy a product, the manufacturers had better never improve on it or sell it for less, because they OWE it to me that I have the best stuff at the lowest prices ever.

I like it much better in the DSLR category, where you can buy a 5D Mark II and you'll know that you're "safe", that they'll never introduce a product like the 7D, because...

... wait, hold on, my sarcasm tank is getting a little low, let me top it up...

... and in computers, it's the best. I bought a Pentium III back in 1998, and all the manufacturers have had the good graces to introduce SLOWER products at HIGHER prices ever since. Boy, it feels so good when a manufacturer looks out for you like that!

Dude. It's "The Great Recession". Get used to it. Sony actually had to GIVE AWAY their 2/3" XDCAM HD422 cameras. Well, let me rephrase that -- they told buyers who didn't want the XDCAM-HD 1/2" cams "well, just buy it now, and when the 2/3" version comes out we'll take the old one back and give you the new one." Sounds great, right? Except what about all those poor saps who actually spent $17,000 or $20,000 for a PDW-330 or PDW-350, when the next thing you know Sony's selling barely-used ones for $12,000 including lens?

Get used to it -- prices go down, not up. Buy what you need, with the full understanding that something better is absolutely going to come along, soon, and it'll be cheaper too, and that's just the way the world works. The days of buying a BVW600 and having it stay "current" for years -- that's over.
 
It comes with the territory Hunter. I think it's a good thing, it allows more users to use better quality, higher end cameras. If you look at it strategically, the ridiculously low cost of the HPX300 seems to be a harbinger of what future Panasonic cameras could be like, larger CMOS imager, full raster, VFR, better quality VF and LCD screens, AVCINTRA 100, etc. I am also sure that Panasonic sees the writing on the wall that more and more "broadcast" kinds of clients like NBC are replacing $40,000.00 cameras like the HDX900 with inexpensive cameras that look better like the HPX300.

Of course, Barry is correct too, in this economy and the economy going forward, price trumps ultimate quality, just as in content, the king is "good enough". Let's be realistic, if you are talented enough, you can shoot anything from a You Tube video to a $100 miliion feature with the HPX300. Sure, the bigger cameras like the 2700/3700 are better but are they only twice as good in the edit bay when you are looking over the footage or are they ten times better as the relative prices of the higher end cameras might justify? The RED One is only $17,500.00 for the body. The 7D is only $1,700.00 for the body. See the trend? Smaller, cheaper, simpler and lower quality are the buzz words in our business in EVERYTHING! The days of wanting "the best" regardless of price are coming to an end. Frankly I see the market for top end cameras is contracting and I think that this is a strategic move by Panasonic to keep/boost market share.

I have to confess, I am very impressed with the new Sony F800, from what I have seen of it. But it holds me back from seriously considering buying it because I would have to switch media types, go back to media with spinning discs and I hate the Sony codecs, I prefer the simplicity, color space and quality of DVCPRO HD and AVCINTRA 100. Since I own eight P2 cards, a 170 and used to own a 200, I am somewhat bought into the Panasonic way of doing things.

Barry, you are killing me. I did have a BVWD-600 for years and years and yes, it was great to not want a new camera every year. Then again at $65,000.00 for a body, you really couldn't buy new cameras all of the time.

Dan
 
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Yep, it's a new world and a new economy. It may get to the point where we let the rental guys buy the cameras and we just start renting; that way we can always be "current" no matter what advances happen.

Then again, with something like an HPX2700 costing under $20k, how much sense does it make to keep renting? And with the turnover that's going on, how are rental companies going to stay in business?
 
I appreciate your input Barry, and I know prices drop often and fast on electronics- but this is militant and self induced price slashing by Panasonic- not on consumer goods- but on toptier professional camera systems.

Think about it- Panasonic is actually forcefully dropping the investment value of everyone who bought one of the 3700's or 2700's by MORE THAN HALF- not because they have a better product out- but just so they can sell a few more cameras! I just got off the phone with a friend who bought the 2700 right when it was available (just a little over 6 months ago if you remember) and he was quite upset and confused.

There is a reason none of the other high-end video and (even still camera) manufacturers has done something so drastic as selling their current flagship products for half-price.
 
But the point is -- if the market won't bear it, what are they supposed to do? Just refuse to sell any more, because by gum, they're obligated to protect the investment of past buyers? That didn't exactly work out so well in the housing market, and it's not going to work out in the pro video market either.

Every industry, everywhere, is having to slash prices by huge amounts to move product. There was a story in the news about a week ago about how the new slashed prices are "the new norm". People aren't going back. They expect slashed prices.

When an HPX300 costs $7500, there is simply no way to justify $60,000 for an HPX3700. Yes the 3700 is more capable, but -- as Dan said, is it a 10x increase?

It's the new norm. Sony's F900R was $100,000. Their "replacement" cam, the PDW700, is $30k. That's not even half-off, that's 2/3 off.

Again, the game is over. The HPX300 proved that loud and clear -- network news organizations like NBC and ABC are buying $7,000 cameras as their mainline camera. Who's left to buy $60,000 to $100,000 products, if even the major broadcasters are going with the sub-$10k market?

As for "none of the other high-end video" etc.; Sony's selling their XDCAM 422 lineup for about 1/3 what the comparable HDCAM products were. JVC doesn't even *have* a high-end lineup anymore, they got out of that business years ago. And Thomson's Infinity is pretty much D.O.A., isn't it? Who else is there? Ikegami and Hitachi?

I think it's fair to say that Sony is doing the same thing, just maybe not with the same amount of fanfare. And that's pretty much the complete list of competitors.
 
Wow...that's something I really didn't see coming. Out of my price range, but still.

imagesbubble-20burst-small.jpg
 
I agree with all your points guys- and I would be very happy if I was buying a hpx2700 today- but back to my point, this is the end of panasonics high-end line (or at least the end of charging so much for them). Im just shocked- thats all.
 
To a lesser extent, there's deflationary pressures on wages as well.
Non-union day rates here in LA have definitely gone down since last summer 2008, work is much scarcer. Experienced grips and ACs take 125/day jobs and shrug it off. Union rates are the same but there's much less of it for a variety of reasons.
With people, especially freelancers, earning less it should be appropriate that the general cost of goods and materials used, even rent, should come down.
 
hunter richards said:
but back to my point, this is the end of panasonics high-end line (or at least the end of charging so much for them). Im just shocked- thats all.
Click to expand...
It is the end of the $40,000 camcorder, that's true. Whether from Panasonic or Sony or Ikegami or Hitachi or Thomson. That game's over, that ship has sailed, that sun has set.
 
The cameras are now IT products, and will have the same short generation cycles and the same pricing scheme. Granted, not everyone would buy a professional shoulder mount camcorder even if they were sold for $1K, but expanding consumer market and reuse of the same lenses/chipsets/codecs across the board allows dropping prices on professional products.
 
But nothing is reused or shared anywhere in the HPX2000/2700/3000/3700 line with any other consumer product. No overlap.
 
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