BONE HAND by Jack Daniel Stanley

John_Hudson said:
John is simply stating his opinion Jack. :lipsrseal
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I said as wrong as rule - meaning that in every instance my closeups are framed with too little headroom, as per the examples you posted where the top of the head is often cropped.
John_Hudson said:
There's no argument. In the end, it is your film and therefore your decision.
Clearly.
-
Signing out. :undecided
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I meant argument as in discussion.

Sorry.
 
OK. It's late, I'm tired and irritable and my favourite dog is recovering from surgery. And now I'm going to show my age.

A number of years back, a Kubrick film came out called Barry Lyndon. I saw it in the theatre. First release run. And no, I'm not in a walker yet.

The hype surrounding Barry Lyndon at the time was that (basically) if the technology existed and if people could look at the film frame-by-frame, each frame was a work of art in and of itself and was a gallery-suitable image. Well, people couldn't look at it frame-by-frame at the time - that simply wasn't an option because VHS and Betamax home video recorders were still a few years off and "renting a movie" was unheard of. Ahhhhh. Those were the days.

But you know, the film looked beautiful (even if film-goers couldn't pick it apart frame-by-frame). Whether the story and Ryan O'Neal's performance matched the cinematography is another question.

But we went to the movie, experienced it, and chatted about it later. Had today's technology been available then, I wonder how much time and energy would have been spent by the audience trying to find the exceptions to the "every frame's a masterpiece" hype.

To fast forward to Bone Hand, I sincerely wonder what the comments regarding JDS' excellent film would be if we all could only watch it once or twice, on a big screen, no pauses or freeze frames. If we simply didn't have the ability to (perhaps over-) analyse it by picking it apart frame-by frame.

I am not criticizing those who are reviewing Bone Hand in close scrutiny. I'm learning from the discussion. But personally, sometimes I just want to sit back, let the film (and the other films in this festival) envelope me and then react accordingly. And maybe that's what makes me a member of an audience rather than a cinematographer.

But I truly hope that JDS and talented people like him keep making films just like this. Not for the cinematographers, but for the audience.

Because when you make a film for the audience it doesn't have to be perfect. Just perfectly entertaining.

And in my book, Bone Hand was all of that.

Thanks Jack.
 
I appreciate that guys.

whew ... what a thread, but I think I've really REALLY ticked off Hudson.

... John I'm really sorry.

I know you had the best intentions.

I should have PMed you rather than buck up here.

You're one of my favorite things about this site and I've always enjoyed your feedback.

I think you have been the first to post in my thread for every DVXuser fest I've enetered and that's a tradition that I hope continues.

I'm sorry I took your enthusiasm for Bone Hand and passionate dicussion of filmmaking as harping. I know that's not where you were coming from, and that you've always been in my corner, and I hope you'll let it slide and join us here again.

It's not DVXuser Fest without you.

Please come back and call me an asshat.

- Jack
 
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Dahopa, that was an incredible post. I've had the same thing tumbling around in my head but I couldn't put it into words.

I see John Hudson's point for sure. Although, I just think it depends on the style of your piece, or just your style period. When Kim Manners would direct episodes of the XFiles, the CU shots of Scully and Mulder would almost always lop the tops of their heads right off. It was a stylistic choice. It brought more focus on the eyes and created a sense of urgency. I say do whatever the hell you want whenever you want if you feel it the right choice instinctively, even if you're wrong to other people. It's what you feel. If you're a good director, which you are, it will pull itself into balance.
 
Well even if it has gotten a bit contentious in here, the discussion has been very informative for me and I'm sure many others here. It's very easy to take things out of context when having a discussion like this but I think the give-n-take is essential, even if some ego's may have been bruised. In the end, it doesn't really matter. My point is that I thank you both (and everyone else) for posting in the public forum.
 
Jack, you're a very talented cinematographer and visual stylist. You created some really amazing imagery, and the concept overall was great. But this film ultimately suffered from the same shortcoming every other film in the Herofest suffered from--a weak script. Many films in Herofest ended up getting a 9 or 10 out of 10 for SOMETHING (lighting, score, acting...whatever). But not a one in my opinion got even close to a 7 for script. I'd give Bonehand a 3 or 4 for script. A lot of it was expositional (like when the little girl is asking what the bone-hand does and how it works). I think you'd be surprised how much the audience would understand just from your excellent visuals without the corny exposition. I didn't notice any weird framing, as others have mentioned. You even got a decent performance out of a young kid, which isn't easy to do at all! Yes, I thought it looked just awesome. But the script was just cringe-worthy.
 
desperatecomfort said:
My God, is this what we've come to? Cropping the chin in two shot.s? It;'s a gojod thing I came backl toi ths thread druink.
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Boo.
This forum is about filmmakers posting their work and having it scrutinized by their peers.
It does not help Jack to tell him how much better his movie is than everyone else's.
It's nice to hear compliments... i'ts imperative to hear criticism.
 
conrad_johnson said:
Boo.
This forum is about filmmakers posting their work and having it scrutinized by their peers.
It does not help Jack to tell him how much better his movie is than everyone else's.
It's nice to hear compliments... i'ts imperative to hear criticism.
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:smiley_up Bingo :smiley_up
 
Jack,

I haven't read this whole thread so I am probably repeating stuff, but just wanted to share my thoughts.

First, this is definitely one of my favorite films in the contest.

I love the look of it most of all, your sense of style.

I liked the story, better than "Odd Squad" not as good as "Shed" .

Meanwhile, technically the film was great, comps, light, sound, music, effects. Impressive stuff.

The only other quibble would be that the girl's acting was a little rough around the edges.

Overall though, another great film.

Chris
 
guys play nice or im gonna kick this to the curb.

If you entered the fest and you started a thread in this section for feedback about your films, your gonna get feedback. People will tell you what they liked and what they didnt like. If you cant handle critisism, then PM me to remove your film from this thread... simple as that.

Everyones gotta learn to take critisim.. its the way it works in the real world when you get your film out there. Think of it as practice when you get 300 letters of rejection from a sales agent for a film your trying to sell... and those letters can be alot worse than any of the comments here.



You gu
 
Its wierd how there ends up being a film....or really....a thread that stirs up all kinds of trouble with these fests. Last time with Similo, and this time Bonehand.
 
Guys if I have been innaproriate in handling the feedback in anyway I am truly and deeply sorry.

This is a lot of attention to handle at once -- a lot more than I had to deal with in either of the previous two contests.

While I appreciate those of you who kind of stuck up for me when it seemed like maybe things were getting too picky, lets all just chill.

I love this place, really, and its been the sole source of inspiration and filmmaking knowledge for me since I began shooting 9 months ago.
As I said I have learned many things here. I guess this experience is another example.

Thanks to everyone who commented on my film in anyway.

I hope everyone has a great rest of the fest,

Jack
 
Ths film was very much Mr Daniels baby.

He drove himslef to the breaking point to finish it. I respect him for finihsing it, flaws and all. I think we can afford him the right to defend his choices because of how hard he worked to complete it. ( however minute the flaws may be.)

All my best to everyone here-
Timur Civan :)
 
Learning to take criticisms is part of filmmaking for sure. It's never easy. But I think it gets easier. Ultimately, once the film is done, it's not yours anymore. It's the audience's. And if they don't "get it" or there's something that doesn't work for them, well there's really no argument. It just is. Then again, if there's all kinds of things "wrong" with it and it makes $150 million at the box office, you can't argue with that either (praise be to George Lucas).
 
sean90291 said:
Then again, if there's all kinds of things "wrong" with it and it makes $150 million at the box office, you can't argue with that either (praise be to George Lucas).
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Hahaa!
 
wesley said:
this was one of my favs (tied first place on my ballot :D). had a very unique feel to it. only thing i didn't quite like were the fast edits, but that doesnt matter in the grand scheme anyways. excellent job!
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yeah I kind of went over board at the latst minute.
hope to tone down for teh DVD
thanks for your comments.


conrad_johnson said:
Sorry if this is repetitive - can't begin to read all your posts.

Very good job. This is one of the few that effortlessly kept my attention throughout, which is no small feat because I have ADHD.

So pros -
The one above was a major pro.
overall, i liked your choice of muted colors throughout
loved the city shots
loved how you broke up the cemetery scene with some dark in the left frame
loved the 2 shot of bonehand and girl on top of the building at the beginning
so in short, lots of neat shots.
very high quality overall

cons -
a lot of the framing was too tight, cutting off the chin.
title shots - the shot of the hand, with musical accompaniment, totally felt like that old show that was on nickelodeon when i was a kid - "are you afraid of the dark". It took me out of the story too much.
overall, i'd like to see slicker photography - not so many unconventional angles, jump cuts, etc. i understand you're going for a style here, but it becomes a little off-putting. a simple shot-reverse shot to make me forget I'm watching a movie someone made would be nice.
hallway scene with mom and bone hand - whoah. that confused me. again, shot-reverse shot would be nice.

that said - good work! i genuinely think you did a great job. you've definitely got a style going that works for you.
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Thanks Conrad - we've talked about the framing some. I think part of what is going on is that I'm framing more for TV than film - so that's something good to realize and watch out for.


sean90291 said:
Jack, you're a very talented cinematographer and visual stylist. You created some really amazing imagery, and the concept overall was great. But this film ultimately suffered from the same shortcoming every other film in the Herofest suffered from--a weak script. Many films in Herofest ended up getting a 9 or 10 out of 10 for SOMETHING (lighting, score, acting...whatever). But not a one in my opinion got even close to a 7 for script. I'd give Bonehand a 3 or 4 for script. A lot of it was expositional (like when the little girl is asking what the bone-hand does and how it works). I think you'd be surprised how much the audience would understand just from your excellent visuals without the corny exposition. I didn't notice any weird framing, as others have mentioned. You even got a decent performance out of a young kid, which isn't easy to do at all! Yes, I thought it looked just awesome. But the script was just cringe-worthy.
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tahnks for taking the time to share your thoughts.


CMessineo said:
Jack,

I haven't read this whole thread so I am probably repeating stuff, but just wanted to share my thoughts.

First, this is definitely one of my favorite films in the contest.

I love the look of it most of all, your sense of style.

I liked the story, better than "Odd Squad" not as good as "Shed" .

Meanwhile, technically the film was great, comps, light, sound, music, effects. Impressive stuff.

The only other quibble would be that the girl's acting was a little rough around the edges.

Overall though, another great film.

Chris
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thanks chris, glad you liked it I respect your opinion

thanks for commenting everyone,

Jack
 
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Jack, great flick brutha! I love that you never forget to give your story heart. What's the point of cool FX and action if you couldn't give two craps about the characters?

Also cool, was seeing THE MAN acting in this one. You couldn't get me to do that in one of my films with a gun to my head. But hey, where was that FX shot you wanted me to do? Thought I'd see it in there...

Anyways, this is one of the tops so far in this contest for me (7 more to go). Well done!
 
Man I think your films are cool! Top notch in my book. I'd like to see some full length flicks from you. Excellent job!!!
 
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