Bolex D16: RAW, 16/Super 16 sensor size, costs less than MkIII

They are supposed to get the new sensor and processor boards this week. That is the main hold up on finishing a working production prototype, the last versions had mechanical fit issues, though the electronics worked fine on the bench. Joe said they would not show anymore footage until it is from a working production prototype.
There is no firmly predictable timeline on any new electronic product development, especially something as complex as a digital video camera.
The Bolex is happening, just not as fast as many of us, including Joe, would have liked.
Seems like a lot of people don't have the patience to follow the development cycle of a camera, warts and all. Better if it just suddenly appears in the market ready to go in all its pristine perfection with no bugs or issues right? How often does that happen? Look how long it has taken Black Magic to go from finished hardware production prototypes as shown at NAB to shipping a few cameras, and they still have serious QC issues with the sensors. You never saw any footage from lab prototypes.
 
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We saw plenty of prototype footage. So far there has been zilch footage from anything resembling an actual product.

If you still don't have your camera by this time 2013, will you still be as forgiving? Where is the line for you?
 
I'm probably going to pick up a GH3 for now. Need a still and video camera upgrade for my old gear and that is definitely the best option for a dual purpose low cost system I can use with all of my existing lenses. That will serve until the Bolex, or some other modest priced 16mm lens compatible raw camera, comes to market. We need an efficient compressed HD video camera to produce art demos and teaching DVD's for my wife. But that is a separate thing from the raw motion acquisition that I want for some experimental fine art video work. Video cameras just don't offer the creative latitude or freedom of a raw camera.

I like the BMC for image quality, but it is not currently available either and the limited lens compatibility and form factor don't really suit me.
 
Razz16mm said:
and the limited lens compatibility and form factor don't really suit me.
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The m4/3 version is probably the most universal mount you can think of. And I find it curious that you'd donate money for a Bolex form factor, which, to me, is far more at odds with my workflow than the BMCC.
 
Funny,

I was just thinking to myself, I wonder what the digital bolex IQ looks like. I don't have a dog in the fight, just thought of the camera and expected to hit the net and see what people were doing with them. Not so much its not out yet??????????

WOW
 
It seems with this project, they were a bit too optimistic on the release dates and how things would come together....making them appear disorganized/even sketchy in some stages. Having no in body prototype, no footage from their OWN camera, etc. But I looked a little more, found some live net feeds announced from their twitter- I am now convinced they are working hard to get this thing done, whether they do it all that soon is anybody's guess. Here are the "final" mock ups, looks pretty cool.

http://www.digitalbolex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/D16_CNC3_No_Lens.jpg

http://www.digitalbolex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/D16_CNC3_Crank_Side.jpg

http://www.digitalbolex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/D16_CNC3_XLR_Side.jpg

http://www.digitalbolex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/MG_9767.jpg
 
I watched part of an Ustream with those DB guys/gal hemmed up in their company/apartment and had to laugh when that guy Joe started pulling out cg rendered models that have come back to him in toy form (looked like rubber/plastic like those older "muscle men," toys from my youth). One of them was the flying bolex camera from their website/poster. Joe went on to say that his "cg guy," gave him a tutorial of cg rendering software and thus, Joe himself, was able to produce the cg render of the flying cam in a mere day to thereby send off to the resin/model/toy maker to manifest into a physical form. I can't take these guys seriously anymore....

On a brighter note: The Ikonoskop A-Cam DII is on sale for this Christmas/Hanukkah/winter holiday at a reduced price of 6900 euros as opposed to the normal price of 7700 euros. I have personally used one and it is my favorite camera. And the company are REALLY composed of filmmakers and don't "tease/bs," on product releases, unless such product upgrades, software or new tech is actually feasible and they can deliver. I love these guys actually...they have worked with me and are even modifying my AATON wooden hand grip to work with the Ikonoksop. I can't say the same for DB. If it ends up being vaporware, I really feel bad for those who are economically strained as I am as although I have always loved super16 film, I could never afford to process film due to just never having had the money to do so. Whatever the Kickstarter fee was ($2500?), could of at least made a dent or even a down payment on the Ikonoskop 16mm camera which has been out for some time now and has proven to create stunning 16mm like quality.
 
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The plastic toys you saw were Joe's first experiment with their own Makerbot 3d prototyping printer. They have nothing to do with the actual D16.
3d printing is being used to produce functional prototypes, short run and custom parts by many industries out of a range of materials including sintered metals. NASA is even making rocket parts with 3D printers now. It is a great design and prototyping tool.

The D16 camera is in the hands of Lenso in Toronto. They are the doing the development and production of the hardware. This is not Joe and Elle make a camera. It is an international partnership among several companies including Bolex SA.
 
From following the development as closely as I can and participating in the Digital Bolex forum, I have no doubt this camera will make it to market. People called Red a scam too at this stage of the development process for the original Red 1.
There are too many companies with money and reputations on the line for this project to fail to make it to market. Based on typical salaries for design engineers capable of developing a camera system like this, the partners involved have probably already shelled out several times more than the Kickstarter funding raised at minimum.
If they are in production and taking orders by NAB 2013, Digital Bolex will have gone from lab prototype to finished production model in less time than it took Panasonic to upgrade the GH2 to a GH3. From the progress I have seen to date, there is no reason to think they won't make it.
 
Razz16mm said:
If they are in production and taking orders by NAB 2013, Digital Bolex will have gone from lab prototype to finished production model in less time than it took Panasonic to upgrade the GH2 to a GH3. From the progress I have seen to date, there is no reason to think they won't make it.
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When Panasonic, Sony, Canon etc., release a new camera it is a finished product ready to go (warts and all). Do you the Digital Bolex will be the same thing or do you think it will be more along the lines of the RED One and it's lengthy public beta?
 
Ikonoskop have said that the time it took them to deliver a completed camera was down to the fact that they went in to development just before the recent financial crash; plus they also had to design and build their own memory card completely from scratch.

yes I agree that two years wasn't exactly a fast turnaround but at least they kept us inundated with sample footage as they went. unless I'm missing something all we've seen from from the d16 is that not very nice looking short they shot with their 'prototype'
 
sportique said:
Ikonoskop have said that the time it took them to deliver a completed camera was down to the fact that they went in to development just before the recent financial crash; plus they also had to design and build their own memory card completely from scratch.

yes I agree that two years wasn't exactly a fast turnaround but at least they kept us inundated with sample footage as they went. unless I'm missing something all we've seen from from the d16 is that not very nice looking short they shot with their 'prototype'
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hmmm? i dont think i could agree that they shot a..."very nice looking short they shot with their 'prototype".

that was some of the lamest footage ive every seen to represent a new upcoming camera.

david
 
he said NOT very nice...but I agree..even though someone mentioned to me that since it was just a prototype, it may not represent the final quality..
 
The thing is...what they shot that footage with was not really a prototype. It was an industrial camera with the sensor that they are going to use...but as they are finding out, that is a far cry from a close representation of what they are trying to build or a true prototype. They are only now getting to the final stages of an in body working model.
I hope they have something concrete to show people soon, because as it stands now no one has seen true D16 footage or a working D16 model. I hope I'm not wrong in my assumption that they are working hard to get this done because I and many others were skeptical early when they had no "prototype". Then when they promised a summer release (last summer) I simply said no way...no one will get a camera in 2012.
I'd like to be wrong about that early skepticism and see a shiny new 2013 Bolex.
 
The D16 is a very simple camera. It digitizes and dumps the raw sensor data to storage media uncompressed and unmodified. Playing with Ikonoskop footage or watching some of their samples will give you a good idea of what the sensor can do, though the D16 uses a higher resolution model. The key to the Bolex will be the raw processor software they include with the camera and the quality of A/D processing between the sensor and the file.
 
Razz: Ideas are ideas. The camera does not exist at this point. As noted above, the footage provided until now was not a camera but a security cam linked to a pc via ISDN. Until we see footage, its all talk. RED and IKONOSKOP did have ideas initially before their ideas were manifested into a working camera. The contradiction is that both companies did not accept cash upfront for an unfinished product that was merely an idea. As far as I'm concerned, this was a lot to ask for just an idea that in reality, was an admiration of the design of the Ikonoskop and the belief that such a camera could be made simply. I'm not saying the DB is an outright scam, as this would be ignorant of me to make this assumption, since in reality, none of us really know whether this is the case or not. However, IMO, the way the company is behaving, is a little shady, seemingly spreading itself very thin regarding the set price of the camera, the t-shirts, posters, toys, etc... without even a working prototype... Perhaps the DB will fly, but IMO, regardless if it does or does not, their business model seems flaky, not focused, and literally all over the place... As I told Mr. Bloom before he banned me on twitter, it is really not so wise to be putting so much faith and advertisement of this venture, when the IKONOSKOP exists and can be tested for review but more often than not, is ignored in comparison to the DB.... which is an idea based on the IKONOSKOP's design... and nothing more.
 
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