Bob's Tests & Comments on the HMC40

[DVXing]

Yeah, I oculd tolerate the FX7's low light, and figured the HMC40 would be pretty close to that.

As far as the quick sale...I think it will move pretty quick atthat price. I saw one go off on ebay for 1650, used. You might try that route if you have decent feedback.

I don't think that the lowlight is even close. For the FX7 to be at 1/60th 12db and the HMC at 1/30th 21db to match is pretty far apart. Again it was a quick and dirty test but I feel is fair.
I could go on ebay with it I have 100% good feedback but was thinking I could give someone a great deal and have a fast sell. My ebay ID is 1fastblackrx7 if anyone wants to check me out.

 

[Cranky]

I don't think that the lowlight is even close. For the FX7 to be at 1/60th 12db and the HMC at 1/30th 21db to match is pretty far apart.

This would be equal to 2.5 stops, not 1.5, would it?

1/30 vs 1/60 is one stop. 21 - 12 = 9(db), which is 1.5 stops, because every 6dB is one stop. So, two and a half total? Seems too much a difference for me, considering that Barry measured the 40 to be about 3 stops slower than the 150. The FX7 cannot be just half a stop slower that the 150

 

[v3rlon]

well, maybe the Zebras aren't the same. That was his yardstick (FX7 zebras on the 70% setting or something?).

2.5 stops seems like a lot given their both 3 1/4" CMOS

 

[DVXing]

I made sure to double check and both zebras were at 100%. Yes your right it would be more like 2.5 stops but since I didn't put much time in the test I was rounding to 1.5 stops since I have have move cameras or the light or something. I wouldn't say that 2 wouldn't be way off. I was taking into account that the zebras may be a little off from the factory. I think the vx2100 may have been around 5.6 to match. Yes it's that big of a differance. If the camera doesn't sell this weekend I'll try to compare the 2100, fx7, hmc40

 

[BobDiaz]

Just a side note:

It's more than just measuring the ISO of the cameras, one has to take into account the noise level at a given gain setting. You can't do this comparison on paper, it has to be done in a side by side test.

Even then, the settings of the cameras can distort the end results.


Bob Diaz

 

[Cranky]

It's more than just measuring the ISO of the cameras, one has to take into account the noise level at a given gain setting. You can't do this comparison on paper, it has to be done in a side by side test.

That is what I meant when I said that it would have been nice to see actual images at any given gain level. As to noise, it can be masked with noise reduction circuit, so the lower-noise camera is not necessarily the better one because of reduced resolution.

 

[Robert M Wright]

I wonder if Sony will take the guts from a V1U/FX7 and put it in an AVCHD cam soon.

 

[Cranky]

I wonder if Sony will take the guts from a V1U/FX7 and put it in an AVCHD cam soon.

It just took guts from the Z5 and made the AX2000 and the NX5. With projected price of the AX2000 around $3K I don't see a point of making another one from the V1, which costs about the same (ok, $2.8K with rebate).

If Sony took the body from the V1U, added to it the built-in mic from the FX7 and implanted into it the guts from its latest consumer cameras including large hi-res LCD screen and added native progressive mode and priced it around $2K, that would be a fine HMC40 killer. I saw images from the new Sony consumer cams, and compared to the TM300 and the HF-S they look seriously cleaner. In fact, I would consider buying a Sony AVCHD consumer cam if it had progressive mode, but none of them do.

 

[DVXing]

Just a side note:

It's more than just measuring the ISO of the cameras, one has to take into account the noise level at a given gain setting. You can't do this comparison on paper, it has to be done in a side by side test.

Even then, the settings of the cameras can distort the end results.


Bob Diaz

Totally agree with you Bob and I didn’t mean to hijack your thread it seemed like a great place to let others know my feelings on the camera. That’s why I was saying 1.5 stops and not 2.5 side by side it looked like 1.5 stops to me. Like I said Monday if it doesn’t sell I’ll try to do some more testing and get some footage or still to post up.
Bob does you LCD look a little on the dark side when compared to a ext. monitor? I have played with setup on the LCD

 

[Robert M Wright]

If they do the same thing with the FX7/V1U that they did with the FX1000/Z5U, the AX version would likely be priced in the same ballpark as the HMC40 and offer better low light performance, built in XLR audio and two card slots, but that's about it for advantages. One thing I love about the HMC40 is the smaller size (yet well thought out for manual controls) and lighter weight - very nice handling really.

 

[Cranky]

If they do the same thing with the FX7/V1U that they did with the FX1000/Z5U, the AX version would likely be priced in the same ballpark as the HMC40 and offer better low light performance, built in XLR audio and two card slots, but that's about it for advantages. One thing I love about the HMC40 is the smaller size (yet well thought out for manual controls) and lighter weight - very nice handling really.

The FX7, which Sony currently sells for $2K, has no progressive mode, no fine image control and no XLR block, but has a built-in mic. The V1 costs $3.3K before rebate, has XLR block and comes with a shotgun mic, but has no built-in mic that the FX7 and the HMC40 have. You are talking about AX, that is, the prosumer version, so it will not have XLR if Sony will continue its rather pointless prosumer/professional lineup split.

I prefer the way the FX7/V1 looks and feels to the HMC40, in fact the looks was one of the criteria for choosing the Sony. The protruding mic on the V1 is a hassle, I would prefer a built-in mic of the FX7 for many of my shots when I don't care for good audio or when I want - gasp! - stereo sound.

The sensors in the V1/Fx7 are old and I bet that Sony will not reuse them. If Sony goes the same route as Panasonic it will use sensors from current consumer lineup, which seem to be better than sensors from Panasonic consumer lineup, at least the image is cleaner with no noticeable penalty in resolution.

 

[DVXing]

The FX7 does have a better feel than the HMC40. The HMC40 feels like you have to be careful with it or it may break. I was worried the handle wouldn't hold my NRG light! It looks "plastic" but feels a little stronger than it looks.

 

[Macfionn]

This negative dhc40 talk is depressing. i may have to stick to the dhc40 lovers forums until i can get over the shock i just spent $2500.

Dont take what I said wrong. All information is good to have and everyone should be allowed to speak all their opinions. But when you don't have it to spend in today's economy, you tend to be more guarded and make the wisest choices you can. So the negative facts of the camera coming out is, well, you know... a major bummer.

Hey Bob? Take this thread back and start posting more tests!!

 

[Cranky]

Macfionn, the talk is not negative. With enough light, the HMC40 shoots better video than the FX7/V1. So if you don't care for low light then don't sweat

 

[DVXing]

You said it Cranky.

Macfionn, sorry to be so depressing but I just to give everyone the info that I wanted but could never find. If you have better results when you get your HMC Friday please post them. On the other hand if you have negative results please post them also. I am very honest and I will not twist my feels or opinions (emphases on opinions) to justify the purchase of the camera.

I don’t want to be the “bad guy” or HMC40 basher on the forum. I just want to put the info out there and I'll let you decide.

 

[ATL Media Group]

You are talking about AX, that is, the prosumer version, so it will not have XLR if Sony will continue its rather pointless prosumer/professional lineup split.

.

The AX2000 has XLR. It lacks 720 60P and some menu options and the ability to use the 128GB CF unit.

 

[Macfionn]

Totally respected, DVX. I understand the why. Don't want anyone to have to defend whats on their mind. And your reasons are both valid and appreciated.

Nevertheless... (Covers eyes & ears and hums loud enough to drown out the drumming)

 

[ATL Media Group]

FWIW the HMC40 is incredible for the price. Nothing can touch it at that price point for clarity and resolution. Just think, we're comparing $3000+ cameras to the $1995 HMC40 and it's close in low light and the HMC beats them on raw resolution and framerates.

 

[DVXing]

I will say if I was working in good lighting or had control over lighting the HMC 40 would have my vote. Image and image control wins over anything in the price range hands down. If the camera doesn't sell soon I may even keep it! It seems it's already lost it's value so I may as well put some hours on it.

 

[BobDiaz]

Totally agree with you Bob and I didn’t mean to hijack your thread it seemed like a great place to let others know my feelings on the camera. That’s why I was saying 1.5 stops and not 2.5 side by side it looked like 1.5 stops to me. Like I said Monday if it doesn’t sell I’ll try to do some more testing and get some footage or still to post up.

Bob does you LCD look a little on the dark side when compared to a ext. monitor? I have played with setup on the LCD

I didn't notice that, but I did notice that in full sun it was a bit hard to see. Not impossible, but hard to see. No big deal, I just switched to the eyepiece viewfinder to frame the shot. Here's a shot someone took at the Smart Car Gathering of me doing an interview...

Hey Bob? Take this thread back and start posting more tests!!

I don't want to be rude about this, but the side talk about what Sony could or could not do is a bit off topic. Please don't get me wrong, it's all very interesting, but please make a new thread for it. If you go back to the first message, my intent was to report my tests and findings on the HMC40 and let others agree or disagree with me.


Thanks,

Bob Diaz