Bob's Notes On the Sony EX-1 From DV Expo

harddrive said:
it's unique (AFAIK) in bringing true manual features to a non-interchangeable lens, which now seems so obvious that you wonder why it wasn't done before. Why has the choice had to be manual interchangeable lenses OR servo fixed?
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Ever seen a six-year-old DVX100? It has every bit as manual a zoom as the EX1 has. Focus is different, but at least it's completely repeatable and, apart from not having end stops, functions as a mechanical manual focus ring would. I think that's the innovation you were looking for?

But what will JVC do indeed. Until the HD100 came out, I rated them as a poor also ran to Panasonic and Sony - but the HD100 redefined what ergonomics people could expect in a camera of this price (an area the EX can easily be criticised in), and the 200 series (with 50/60fps support, etc) consolidated the range. If they keep up the pace, the next generation could be very interesting indeed.
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Will JVC respond at all even? That's the big question. JVC just got sold, and there's no longer a clear path as to what their future will even be. Will they even stay in the broadcast market? Or will they get a huge infusion of cash to become a serious competitor in the broadcast market? I think more question marks surround JVC than any of the other manufacturers. Professional Video and Broadcast has only accounted for about 8% of JVC's revenues, but it was also one of the few divisions of JVC that actually showed a profit. I don't expect much from them in the near future though because in their annual report they say that their strategy for the professional video division is
Concentrate on security products and professional audio equipment; strengthen collaboration between the professional camcorder and consumer camcorder businesses." ​
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So it doesn't sound like there's much groundbreaking to be done in the near term, but we'll see.​
 
Barry_Green said:
Ever seen a six-year-old DVX100? It has every bit as manual a zoom as the EX1 has. Focus is different, but at least it's completely repeatable and, apart from not having end stops, functions as a mechanical manual focus ring would. I think that's the innovation you were looking for?
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I agree when i first saw the DVX100, it was a very sweet camera. The lens rings were better than anything else out there at the time. They were nice, but I wouldn't call it the exact same feel as a fully manual cam-driven focus ring with end stops.

The EX1 just takes it to the next level, which is an ENG style lens. It has the same three focus-zoom-iris rings in the same spots. It also does the JVC one step better with AF, manual focus assist and OIS. That's pretty innovative to me.
 
It also does the JVC two and three better, with minimal breathing and no massive purple/green fringing!

I guess what David's talking about is that modest upgrades shouldn't be hailed as innovation. 1/2" 1920x1080 CMOS 3-chip sensors in a handheld form factor? Innovation. A usable LCD screen with decent res? Evolution, bordering on innovation. Incorporating the focus assist from a 30-month-old HD100? Imitation. Making hot-swappable recording on solid state memory cards? Imitation. HD-SDI? Imitation -- the G1 had it over a year ago.

Sony pulling their head out of their rectum and designing a camcorder that people appear to actually want to buy, and pricing it competitively? THAT'S the EX1's biggest innovation! :)
 
Barry_Green said:
I guess what David's talking about is that modest upgrades shouldn't be hailed as innovation. 1/2" 1920x1080 CMOS 3-chip sensors in a handheld form factor? Innovation. A usable LCD screen with decent res? Evolution, bordering on innovation. Incorporating the focus assist from a 30-month-old HD100? Imitation. Making hot-swappable recording on solid state memory cards? Imitation. HD-SDI? Imitation -- the G1 had it over a year ago.

Sony pulling their head out of their rectum and designing a camcorder that people appear to actually want to buy, and pricing it competitively? THAT'S the EX1's biggest innovation! :)
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See, once again all this political stuff. Inflammatory comments from moderators like "Sony pulling their head out of their rectum and designing a camcorder that people appear to actually want to buy, and pricing it competitively? THAT'S the EX1's biggest innovation!" And you guys say you want DVXUser to move beyond brand wars and focus on filmmaking. How hypocritical is this? Don't hide this as a smiley either. We all know how you really feel.

And what's with all this imitation denigration again? Did everyone else imitate Sony because they had the first 3CCD consumer camera? Or the first CMOS consumer camera? And what defines a feature as an imitation? If HD-SDI, an industry standard, is an imitation then I guess having a hot shoe is too? See how ridiculous this is and you moderators keep feeding this.

Btw, Sony has has the colored peaking similar to the HD100 since the Z1, which was announced 6 months before the HD100 was out. Barry, it would be wise to check your facts before making accusations.
 
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Tim Le said:
Btw, Sony has had the colored peaking similar to the HD100 since the Z1, which was announced 6 months before the HD100 was even out. It would be wise to check your facts before making accusations.
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And,
As an owner of the HD100, the EX1 somehow even improved on the peaking function. I set it to HIGH (Blue). I thought it worked great on the HD100, it really works WELL on the EX1.
We were racking shots in low to moderate light just using the LCD and it was spot on when we played it back!
They definately got that right!
 
We all know how you really feel.
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That is how I really feel. I think they haven't made a product since the original VX2000/PD150 that was a compelling product designed around what the customer wants. Them doing so with the EX1 is a good sign. I do believe that they've had their product-design heads stuck in unpleasant places and have lost their way. And I say this as someone who used *only* Sony gear up until the original DVX came out. They've lost their way, they've lost their lead, they've lost truckloads of money, they've lost market share, they've lost their integrity. They need to get it back. Producing a good product would be a good first step, and it looks like they may have taken it. Good for them.

As for the rest of it -- if you don't recognize the irony of Sony's "Where Sony Innovates, Others Imitate" ad campaign being applied to the "P2 MeToo", well, I guess there's not a whole lot else to discuss.

As for:
Btw, Sony has had the colored peaking similar to the HD100 since the Z1, which was announced 6 months before the HD100 was even out. It would be wise to check your facts before making accusations.
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Oops. Blew that one. I didn't remember the Z1 as having colored peaking.
 
I've always liked Sony. My only issue is I worry about them being a team player.
I don't need to go into the ol' Beta, mini disk, memory stick, Bluray ......etc..

I do feel a lot of times they come up with the superior product, but fall short on negotiations with other leading manufactures. For some reason, I truly believe that state of mind has changed with them.

I believe the EX1 is a good deal. It's a great comeback camera for Sony.
They are going to sell big time.

In fact, as we all know, you can't even get one right now.
 
Barry_Green said:
As for the rest of it -- if you don't recognize the irony of Sony's "Where Sony Innovates, Others Imitate" ad campaign being applied to the "P2 MeToo", well, I guess there's not a whole lot else to discuss.
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Look, all of these companies have BS marketing department. All marketing departments are full of BS. You just learn to tune them out. And I agree I haven't been excited about a camera after the first 3CCD until the DVX100 camera around.

But all that I'm saying is that we need to quit all this political crap and mine is better than yours or one company is evil, etc. that goes on in these forums.
 
harddrive said:
Minor variation!? Totally ignoring any image considerations, it's unique (AFAIK) in bringing true manual features to a non-interchangeable lens, which now seems so obvious that you wonder why it wasn't done before. Why has the choice had to be manual interchangeable lenses OR servo fixed?

Implementing 1/2" chips in a form factor that has hitherto been associated with 1/3" or smaller I would also call highly innovative.
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Yeah, I gave full credit for that.
 
Tim Le said:
See, once again all this political stuff. Inflammatory comments from moderators like "Sony pulling their head out of their rectum and designing a camcorder that people appear to actually want to buy, and pricing it competitively? THAT'S the EX1's biggest innovation!" And you guys say you want DVXUser to move beyond brand wars and focus on filmmaking. How hypocritical is this? Don't hide this as a smiley either. We all know how you really feel.

And what's with all this imitation denigration again? Did everyone else imitate Sony because they had the first 3CCD consumer camera? Or the first CMOS consumer camera? And what defines a feature as an imitation? If HD-SDI, an industry standard, is an imitation then I guess having a hot shoe is too? See how ridiculous this is and you moderators keep feeding this.

Btw, Sony has has the colored peaking similar to the HD100 since the Z1, which was announced 6 months before the HD100 was out. Barry, it would be wise to check your facts before making accusations.
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I'm pretty sure that I said it's possible that the EX1 is a better camera than the HVX.

But it is my opinion that its features were chosen specifically to imitate the feature set of the HVX. In fact, I think that's plain as day. So no, other than the 1/2" chips and the focus mechanism, I don't think it's particularly "innovative," which is all I said about it.

I don't give a rat's patootie who makes what camera. I only care what the cameras do.

None of this even matters all that much to me, though, beyond an academic discussion (which is what I consider this), because the entire sub-$10K set isn't even what I'm looking at anymore . . .
 
Call me morally misguided but not at all sentimental or monoganous. Would I trade my old wife in for a prettier picture with much better figures?
Sure I would, that old HVX is obsolete. To those of us with less sentiment and of course can afford a superior model.
 
See, once again all this political stuff. Inflammatory comments from moderators like "Sony pulling their head out of their rectum and designing a camcorder that people appear to actually want to buy, and pricing it competitively? THAT'S the EX1's biggest innovation!" And you guys say you want DVXUser to move beyond brand wars and focus on filmmaking. How hypocritical is this? Don't hide this as a smiley either. We all know how you really feel.
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Truth hurts Tim
 
I don't want to hijack this thread any further so I'll try to steer it back to center.

Getting back to my original point, all of these cameras shoot very good pictures, with some slight image quality advantages going to one camera or another. What camera manufacturers should focus on now is designing a truly great camera for the camera operator. Something with solid tools that allows a camera operator to hit focus, exposure and white balance quickly, precisely and efficiently. The EX1 is a step in the right direction because of the ENG style lens, super high resolution LCD monitor and numerous exposure indicators.

But even the EX1 can still be improved. I'd like to see an even higher resolution (720P) LCD monitor (but still keep it sunlight readable quality), same high-rez in the VF, a slightly wider lens going to 28mm, some extra WB controls, lower power draw and 1080/60P. That last one isn't even a standard but we need it. The biggest thing of all would be to somehow go to a 2/3" sensor. The lens will be bigger so they'd probably have to shorten the zoom ratio to make a handheld camera manageable. But with a 2/3" optical system, the operator will have even more DOF control--not yet 35mm, but now approaching 16mm.
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
What will be panasonics next step as an answer to the EX1 ??????????????
That is a more interesting queastion.
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It breaks down into what is technically easy, and what isn't!

The one respect in which the EX has attracted a lot of criticism is ergonomics, with many feeling it should be shouldermount in form - there is no technical reason the next gen HVX couldn't be styled in such a way, and gain an advantage over the EX by so doing.

Whilst Panasonic may wish to keep using P2 for higher end cameras, there is now no reason to keep using it for cameras in this price range - Compact Flash is the obvious possibility. Whilst the EX currently needs SxS cards (not much cheaper than P2) Sony have apparently announced that a firmware upgrade will soon allow it to use some of the cheaper ExpressCard memory cards with a slight drop in functionality. A move away from P2 would allow Panasonic to at least keep parity with the EX in this respect.

Now it gets difficult. There are no big underlying technical reasons for not doing either of the above two suggestions, but higher resolution and more sensitive chips aren't so easy. I do see a move to 1920x1080 though, probably driven by the ever increasing number of screens at affordable prices which have that resolution. People can now see differences that they couldn't before.
 
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