Blu-Ray available now for PC

[Kaz]

Mini-Disc was highly successful in Japan, too. So what?

Not sure what you mean here. I didn't say anything about Blu-Ray being successful in Japan.

And I'm well aware of the history. Believe me.
I never said anything about Blu-ray or anyone else being the be-all end all winner, cause really, who the hell knows what's going to happen?

Just stating that if it came to Blu-Ray or HD-DVD delivering my HD films and whatnot, I'd rather it be BD. And the PS3 makes my decision easier since I was getting one anyway for gaming. Having Blu-Ray is just an added bonus.

I will say this, VOD downloading is an idea I truly despise. They would have to sacrifice quality to deliver HD content at fast speeds, which completely destroys the whole point of "High Definition".

 

[The Sarlacc]

Not sure what you mean here. I didn't say anything about Blu-Ray being successful in Japan.

I mentioned it because 1) you said mini-disc was a failure, and it was...everywhere except in Japan which leads to 2) Blu-Ray has been in Japan for awhile now...doesnt mean anything regrading its success in the US.

I will say this, VOD downloading is an idea I truly despise. They would have to sacrifice quality to deliver HD content at fast speeds, which completely destroys the whole point of "High Definition".

I doubt that will be the case. More then likley you will be able to choose the quality you want.

 

[Kaz]

I mentioned it because 1) you said mini-disc was a failure, and it was...everywhere except in Japan which leads to 2) Blu-Ray has been in Japan for awhile now...doesnt mean anything regrading its success in the US.

I think you've confused me with someone else. I never brought up mini-disc.

I doubt that will be the case. More then likley you will be able to choose the quality you want.

And wait a couple of days for it to download. Lovely.

 

[The Sarlacc]

I think you've confused me with someone else. I never brought up mini-disc.

damn, you're right I did...

And wait a couple of days for it to download. Lovely.

for now...by the time the studios get OK and secure with rights and piracy technology will have once again leap frogged...hopefully.

 

[dregenthal]

IF HD-DVD would bring out a burner for $500, that would get many of US content creators buying them for archive purposes, and we would be promoting them when the customer asks us how they can view the HD footage on their HD sets.

IF we had the HD-DVD burner, we would have to push that format, as that would be the system we would be on.

It is not ready for prime time untill it gets below $500.

Just like printers....give away the printer, charge for the ink.

Better yet, give away the HD-DVD burner and the media, eliminate your competition. (Walmart mentality)

You raise a couple of interesting points . . .

"Losing money on each unit but making it up in volume" may actually have merit:

How 'bout some company marketing genius decides to intro a "low-end" burner (HD-DVD or Blue-Ray, who cares) at $399. News release states it will be for a limited time only (fear of loss) to stimulate the market by getting some units out there fast.

People like me would jump all over it -- if the technology (and product) are really worth a damn the company would receive great reviews, gain a foothold over market share, and probably have recouped a lot more R&D and manufacturing investment early on than they will overall if "the other guy wins".

Sure, in the real world this is not how it's done but it seems ridiculous to gamble away precious months waiting for the first wave of people who will buy at any price to step up to the register in a volatile marketplace with real competition and emerging technology.

Should a mega-manufacturer take heed? I don't know, you tell me . . . what if Jim Jannard decides to build the "HD-RED burner?"

 

[cici]

@The Sarlacc:

So, how are YOU going to archieve tons of - let's say - 15GB footage and still keep it mobile?

I'm going to use the Blu Ray or HD DVD technology for getting a versatile medium that I can hand out to a customer, a friend, a TV-channel and it won't cost me more than 1 USD for the medium... I don't see a better solution so far on the market and HD-DVD and BluRay Disc ARE about to be on the market now. So if I wait for holographic media or anything else, new technologies will be announced and after them new ones etc. - so ONCE I have to "jump" on a train and a double layer DVD is just NOT ENOUGH - speaking of capacity and price.

A single Blu Ray disc costs today of course more than 1 USD, but the starting price is the same as it was for the CD and for the DVD and for the DVD-RAM, so if it won't be 1 USDollar within 12 months, then something is wrong.... but it will and that's when I'm going to "jump on" the train. Perhaps at that moment (in about 11 months) a holographic solution will be introduced at any fair, BUT that will still take some more 2 years to appear on the market for a price that the HD DVD and Blu Ray solution will offer in 2006/2007.

Perhaps you have a better solution for cheap and mobile storage (> 12 GB) and are willing to share it with me / us... ?

 

[Zack Birlew]

I like Bluray because it has much more potential for upgraded capacities in the future.

I like HD-DVD because it's cheaper and offers the same quality as Bluray.

I don't like Bluray because it costs so much.

I don't like HD-DVD because it is merely a bandaid technology. The best it will do is cut season collections sets from four discs to two, and maybe not even in HD.

I like Bluray because Sony seems to really be trying to not do another Betamax and most of the studios have partial support for it (ie. they support both Bluray and HD-DVD, not one or the other).

I like HD-DVD because it is widely supported as well and has nobody bad-mouthing it like some of the partial supporters of Bluray are.

I don't like Bluray because there isn't enough word of mouth to Joe-Schmoe-Consumer.

I don't like HD-DVD because there isn't enough word of mouth to Joe-Schmoe-Consumer.

 

[AshG]

Mass confusion... first, even at $1000 for a BR burner and $50 for a 50GB disc, that is the cheapest back-up solution on the planet right now. Unless you are using a high-end RAID5, dont count HDD as a legit back-up. Considering the currently outrageous price for P2, how can people on this forum whine about a single optical disc that will hold 12 4GB P2 cards worth of back-up on a non-destructive format? Silliness...

I think BR will make it for a while for back-up and video games, not so much for movies. There will likely be 200GB burnable BR disks before the end of the year...

One last bit of confusion to clear up, there is absolutely no mandate for HDTV, 2009 will not be the end of SD... it will be the end of ANALOG, there will still be tons and tons of digital SD stations. People routinely confuse digital with HD... the law is forcing broadcasters to send out the signal DIGITALLY, NOT in HD. If you have a non-digital set, no problem a $20 box from radioshack will take care of it for you...



ash =o)

 

[The Sarlacc]

@The Sarlacc:
I'm going to use the Blu Ray or HD DVD technology for getting a versatile medium that I can hand out to a customer, a friend, a TV-channel

Great...but now you are counting on them to have the same format player/burner/reader you just invested in...and ten to one that won't be the case. This is my biggest issue with these dueling formats, and why I believe both will falter because no one will want to invest.

A single Blu Ray disc costs today of course more than 1 USD, but the starting price is the same as it was for the CD and for the DVD and for the DVD-RAM, so if it won't be 1 USDollar within 12 months, then something is wrong.... but it will

Yeah...I don't believe that one for a hearbeat.

 

[DavidBeier]

Not to hijack the thread, but...I'm amused that people think the $600 PS3 60GB, BR-DVD price is outrageous, when these same people are paying $400 for their iPods that don't do half as much. To me, the PS3 is like getting a slightly better XBox360 PLUS a BR-DVD player with HDMI out. Considering that players are going for $1,000 (as you say), $600 seems like a pretty good deal. No?

First off, I personally refuse to buy an Xbox 360 for $400 as well. Early adopters who payed $300 for a PS2 back in the day may be willing to chock down an extra hunred but I wonder if the general market is really going to spend $600 on a gaming system. Also, doesn't the Xbox360 have an HD DVD player in it? That kind of levels things then.

And yes, technically the PS3 is a great deal considering the Blue Ray player. The thing is, it's a lousy deal for someone like me who really doesn't want a Blue Ray. I don't think the average consumer is really going to want to blow $1000 on a Blue Ray and another $1000 on a DVD player. Didn't they all just get done getting their whole collection on DVD? Once again, I don't see people paying twice the price for something that isn't twice the quality. I also see them wanting HD DVDs because they are already out and because they have the name DVD in the title (dumb I know but no one ever accused the public of being clever).

The bottom line is though all this is pure speculation. We don't know what will win out. And yes, maybe a 3rd media will come out (though i doubt it). The bottom line however is that I don't want to be forced to pay $600 for a console just for Blue Ray functions that may end up amounting to beta-max and I don't want to pay $1000 for a Blue ray player that may end up the same way. And personally, I actually really liked mini-discs. They were cool like in Men in Black .

 

[The Sarlacc]

First off, I personally refuse to buy an Xbox 360 for $400 as well. Early adopters who payed $300 for a PS2 back in the day may be willing to chock down an extra hunred but I wonder if the general market is really going to spend $600 on a gaming system. Also, doesn't the Xbox360 have an HD DVD player in it? That kind of levels things then.

The 360 does NOT have a HD-DVD player...there will be an optional external drive available...which I wont buy. The games will play in 720p though.

 

[cici]

Great...but now you are counting on them to have the same format player/burner/reader you just invested in...and ten to one that won't be the case. This is my biggest issue with these dueling formats, and why I believe both will falter because no one will want to invest.



Yeah...I don't believe that one for a hearbeat.

I still miss your answer for the question about a versatile, mobile, small Medium that can store 10 GB or 15 GB or 20 GB AND in the same has a price, low enough, that you could (in case) handle it just freely to your neighbour who you even don't know well just sayin: "Here you are! I hope your BluRay drive will be able to read it! - No, don't bother about the 2 Dollars..... just keep the disc and enjoy the clips!"

I bought DVDs for 22 Dollars per piece..... in their early days...... and AFTER ONE MONTH I found a factory that sells them for 1,8 USD per piece if you buy at least 25 pieces...... I then bought 200 pieces as there was only 1 other manufacturer with an equal price. These discs still work today and the price of all other discs (including the fantastic Panasonic DVD media) came down within so few time!

Don't forget: the BluRay discs are estimated to cost around 1 Dollar within 12 months (that was estimated for the DVD too and sorted to be a TRUE prognosis!) and even if it would cost not 1 dollar, but 5 Dollars - that's equal to a DVD if you think of the capacity. And I'm sure - they won't cost 5 dollars for a long time - the magic "1 Dollar" and yet "50 cents" are just WAITING to appear.... who will be the first to sell the media for this price? BluRay - afaik - could step over the high production price that used to be an issue last year.... So any economist will agree that the medium just CAN'T cost 10 dollars per piece for the next 5 years..... Even in Japan the price already changed relatively lot in the last few months. And too many different enterprices are involved PLUS the fact that it's 2 different media that are fighting - so the high price of today has no chance to last long.

So, you'd rather handle your neighbour / friend a bundle of DVDs in 2007? - Don0t say that you'll have to see THEN: I'm not talking about buying BluRay NOW, but we all know that no other medium that hasn't been talked over here will be available on the market the next 2 years, so I wonder how you want to solve the <8 Dollar >10 GB issue.

 

[The Sarlacc]

First off, what do I need to give to my neighbor that I don't even know, especially at that much storage?

"Here you are! I hope your BluRay drive will be able to read it! - No, don't bother about the 2 Dollars..... just keep the disc and enjoy the clips!"

And once again you are making the assumption that everyone else will buy blu-ray as well.

So, yeah. If I have to get footage to someone I'll upload to the internet, or burn multiple DVDs. Or someone will give me or bring over an external drive or ipod or whatever and I'll transfer it for them. Same thing we all do right now, and its pretty simple. I don't hear anyone whining for a DVD with higher capacity...for which they have dual layer discs and burners (which cost a lot more then $1 a piece.) And not very many people have or use those at the moment. But more new computers are coming out with built in dual layer burners currently then Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

Go ahead and buy one. Maybe by some miracle it will take off.

But I'm pretty sure its safe to say you're really just wasting your money.

 

[Sproketz]

There is absolutely no basis for predicting the failure of either format by listing which studio backed which. The studios were roped into those positions by the Toshiba and Sony marketing machines. Paramount and Warner Bros. have both already said they will be supporting both formats. Warner Bros. just announced an agreement to distribute feature films via Bit Torrent. Who would care about a plastic disc when you can just play it off a cheap hard drive. People are having no problem with that right now via iPods and other devices for purchasing and playing audio content. Studios are in business to make money from their catalogues any way they can.

Sarlacc,
I thing you've got this just about right. Both HD-DVD and Blue-Ray are interim formats at best.

 

[Sproketz]

Complicating matters further,
At NAB last month there was one of the Toshiba HD-DVD devices playing an HD feature film in Microsoft's booth. The picture looked good, but honestly it didn't look VASTLY better than a very good standard def progressive scan DVD playing on a good display device. I wonder how many consumers, given the huge investment already made in standard def DVD's, are going to rush to get into HD until prices have come WAY WAY down.

 

[The Sarlacc]

Complicating matters further,
At NAB last month there was one of the Toshiba HD-DVD devices playing an HD feature film in Microsoft's booth. The picture looked good, but honestly it didn't look VASTLY better than a very good standard def progressive scan DVD playing on a good display device. I wonder how many consumers, given the huge investment already made in standard def DVD's, are going to rush to get into HD until prices have come WAY WAY down.

Aside from the highly long load times...bugs, glitches, and failures the players have been having...most of the reviews say the same thing regarding the quality.

 

[Bucknfl]

I'm not making any predictions on Blu-ray vs HDVD but these formats are going to be used big time by broadcasters, production companys and filmmakers. The cost of these units are already a bargin when you compare them to HD tape machines.

 

[cici]

1) First off, what do I need to give to my neighbor that I don't even know, especially at that much storage?


2) And once again you are making the assumption that everyone else will buy blu-ray as well.

3) I don't hear anyone whining for a DVD with higher capacity...for which they have dual layer discs and burners

4) But I'm pretty sure its safe to say you're really just wasting your money.

1) I very often give videos for free or for a few dollars to people I know just from 1 evening (seminary, etc.) and also friends or neighbours... and I need more than 10 GB so double layer is not enough

2) so many people I know will buy the Playstation ---- that's a BluRay Player!!! - and others I know want a drive for their PC and some want to record from TV. Most of them had also DVD in a very early and expensive stade and I just can't believe how many original DVD movies people have at home sometimes!! - 16-30 Dollar per piece (here in Switzerland) and the first HD-DVD movies are out here for a few months... and they cost not so much more than normal DVD...

3) then you don't hear ME!

4) I've been using MiniDisc from the beginning with the first Sony MD player and I still enjoy MDs (today I need it for learning languages and to learn music I have to play in spare time) - that was no wasting.... even if it was a lot of money in the beginning. And I had a DVD-Player after the first device was only about 6 months on the market... I still bought it for only 130 USD and that was a bargain that time and the device still works - is codefree (very difficult to find here) and it plays VCDs and SVCDs. .... I think that was no waste of money... And I won't buy any BluRay device before January 2007 (after christmas prices) and won't pay more than 5-10 USD per empty medium (I'll wait...) so for me this is a very good option for storage and for sharing with people that have Playstation and for professionals, as the studio of my home university that wants to use BluRay.

You want to upload to internet? -I'm talking about >10 GB.... perhaps you can, but the average internet connection here is not fast enough to handle even 1 GB within 1 hour.... I prefer a disc that weights some grams and not walking around with harddisc drives....

Not for all, but for many people a thin disc that can store 25 GB and costs less than 5 dollars (this price will be reached faster than we all estimate...) is a very good solution for sharing and storing videos. Many people here in Switzerland wait for BluRay and HD-DVD as I can see also in the local forum and in the German video fora.

Cici

 

[The Sarlacc]

Perhaps Europe will come to accept these formats more, I don't know. I have not lived in Germany since 1989.

I am predicting, here in the US, HD-DVD and BluRay are going to bomb. HD-DVD has already hit with a resounding thud.

 

[AshG]

In theory, isnt EVERY format an interim format? The only thing to talk about is how long the interim is... With PS3 which will get a GIGANTOR push, you will see a decent amount of penetration of BR. With more games released, the cost of media will fall, etc. etc. etc. this will NOT be the case for HD-DVD. I think BR will get a good 5+ years. Think about it... this year you will have blueray data burners for home and professional, XDCAM cameras, XDCAM decks, PS3 units and standalone movie players all using BR media... HD-DVD? Let's just say, the prospects are much more grim...


ash =o)