BlackMagic - URSA Mini

NorBro said:
Again, it's because IT IS like the other BM cameras...not the new sensor. The older 4K sensor has lots of trouble with highlights/clipping. But on the other hand, for something like this, no one cares about clipping.
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The clipping isn't a sensor problem. It's a cinematographer problem. A competent cinematographer would learn to properly expose for their camera.

There's plenty of proof... quite a few cinematographers have done great work with film stocks that have only 9-10 stops of dynamic range, so 12 stops should be plenty for all cinematographers in most situations. 15 stops should be a luxury more than a requirement. Having 15 stops ought to be enough to make ND filters on windows unnecessary in order to maintain exposure indoors and out, which would save time and money, but plenty of filmmakers have just dealt with not having enough dynamic range to do that by leaving the windows overexposed to the point of being pure white.
 
It's a sensor problem in that the whites clip too easily. If you wanted to expose everything "properly", many of your shots would be extremely underexposed because that's just how the camera behaves. You need to let them go in certain situations for a balance.
 
Sttratos said:
Ok. I guess I will be that guy. I see nothing special. It looks nice but not nicer than what I have seen from the Blackmagic 4K cameras. And stuff is clipping all over and it’s not clipping nicely. So I don’t see what the big praise is. Sorry.
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Well it's a matter of opinion of course but the Fs7 as good as it is doesn't have that color mojo
 
Finster said:
The Dreamers are using the mini 4K, right? Not the mini 4.6K?

Is the mini 4K 10bit?
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I could be wrong but I think in raw its 12 bit raw, and in Prores 4444 it is also 12 bits maybe packed in a 16 bit container ?

prores 422HQ should be 10 bit sampled from 12 bit sensor?
 
maranfilms said:
This camera makes everything else in the price range seem obsolete.
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If the color rendition is as good as everyone is hoping and it really does have 15 stops of dynamic range, it's going to make cameras that are well above its price range seem... disappointing. It's going to be a feast for the spec hounds, and the camera dongles will hate it with a passion.

Whatever. The stuff I'll be shooting with it will look even more gorgeous than what I'm shooting right now. And people are really liking what I've been shooting for them so lately :)
 
Tamerlin said:
The clipping isn't a sensor problem. It's a cinematographer problem. A competent cinematographer would learn to properly expose for their camera.

There's plenty of proof... quite a few cinematographers have done great work with film stocks that have only 9-10 stops of dynamic range, so 12 stops should be plenty for all cinematographers in most situations. 15 stops should be a luxury more than a requirement. Having 15 stops ought to be enough to make ND filters on windows unnecessary in order to maintain exposure indoors and out, which would save time and money, but plenty of filmmakers have just dealt with not having enough dynamic range to do that by leaving the windows overexposed to the point of being pure white.
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But it film has beautiful highlight rolloff, which means "clipping" doesn't look bad. The BMD 4k sensor clips in a way I find harsh (unlike the 2.5k and the s16 sensors). I haven't looked at the footage, but if it really is that bad, diffusion would have helped.
 
Fahnon said:
But it film has beautiful highlight rolloff, which means "clipping" doesn't look bad. The BMD 4k sensor clips in a way I find harsh (unlike the 2.5k and the s16 sensors). I haven't looked at the footage, but if it really is that bad, diffusion would have helped.
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Clearly you haven't worked with Velvia.

That said, it's still a competence issue, not a sensor issue. A competent cinematographer would learn to protect the highlights when the camera they're using doesn't handle highlight clipping gracefully, and that's simply a statement of fact, evidenced by the fact that quite a few cinematographers have made stellar images using both sensors and film with less dynamic range than 12 stops. I'm currently using a 12-stop camera while I await my 4.6K mini, and I'm getting excellent results with it, even though it uses linear encoding and has rather ungraceful highlight clipping. But then... I took the time to learn what got a great image from it. It will of course be easier with the 4.6K, since it will be more forgiving, but I'll still take the time to learn what exposures look best with it to get the most from it.
 
Tamerlin said:
Clearly you haven't worked with Velvia.

That said, it's still a competence issue, not a sensor issue. A competent cinematographer would learn to protect the highlights when the camera they're using doesn't handle highlight clipping gracefully, and that's simply a statement of fact, evidenced by the fact that quite a few cinematographers have made stellar images using both sensors and film with less dynamic range than 12 stops. I'm currently using a 12-stop camera while I await my 4.6K mini, and I'm getting excellent results with it, even though it uses linear encoding and has rather ungraceful highlight clipping. But then... I took the time to learn what got a great image from it. It will of course be easier with the 4.6K, since it will be more forgiving, but I'll still take the time to learn what exposures look best with it to get the most from it.
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I don't know if the motion picture stocks are different from stills, but I have Velvia 100 in my fridge right now (along with Provia 400x and Ektar 100). It was the first slide film I tried and I love it.

I guess the way I see it you have 5 options when your camera clips badly AND has ugly rolloff:

-Avoid windows.
-Gel windows.
-Raise lighting on the subject to bring the scene into the DR your camera can handle.
-Add diffusion to help the rolloff.
-Allow your subject to be underexposed if the piece allows for it. It can be really cool and dramatic.

Correct me if I missed something (not being snarky; actually like to learn new ways of working).
 
Most motion picture stocks are negative stocks, so they have wider dynamic range and smother highlight rolloff than Velvia, though not as much shadow detail (hm... that sounds familiar from a recently release digital cinema camera).

Anyway...

Those are the main options that I know of. Just to brainstorm a bit...

You can also tone down the exposure using ND filters which are less expensive and less work than ND gels, then use lights to bring up the interior lighting. You don't have to battle the sun as much then, just the NDs. Using a combination of sheers and diffusion on the windows works also, as long as what's outside the windows isn't important to the story. A final option is to plate the shot clean with a window-optimized exposure, and composite that into a shot with a proper exposure for the interior. Easy if there isn't anyone moving in front of the window, otherwise you should probably use a green/blue screen.
 
The first video a few posts up is very telling.

New B4 Mount available in November for the PL version of the URSA Mini. Blackmagic have also put an interface connector on the front of the PL version of the cam to fully control B4 ENG lenses including zoom, focus and iris. To have all 3 be controlled from a BM camera I believe is a first. There is finally an admission the sensor build was contracted out and not built in-house (of course it was contracted out). The B4 mount is scheduled for November release but the fellow being interviewed would not state even a guesstimate for the release of the 4.6K URSA Mini itself.

If you plan on getting an URSA Mini, I would watch this...


The Newsshooter interview linked above you have probably seen.

Other products from IBC that URSA Mini people might what to watch are the 2 videos done by Newsshooter on two new variable ND solutions for mattboxes by TIFFEN.



 
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