BlackMagic Cinema Camera Technology Announcements & Latest Info'

Emanuel · Apr 18, 2012

bruceallen said:
Image is okay but it has a very confusing iris system. Every time I lend it to someone, it confuses the heck out of them.

The one nice thing about the Peleng is that it can take gel filters in the back - they come in different colors with the camera but I got some custom ND filters for it, which was awesome.

If I were buying today there are perhaps better alternate options though at similar prices - Samyang 8mm 3.5?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Bruce, I and my partners, we're waiting for the end of NAB for lobbying with BMD a genlock towards a 3D version of this camera. Do you want to join the party?

PappasArts · Apr 18, 2012

bruceallen said:
Image is okay but it has a very confusing iris system. Every time I lend it to someone, it confuses the heck out of them.

The one nice thing about the Peleng is that it can take gel filters in the back - they come in different colors with the camera but I got some custom ND filters for it, which was awesome.

If I were buying today there are perhaps better alternate options though at similar prices - Samyang 8mm 3.5?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Rear filtering is cool. One of my Sigma's has that. I haven't used the Samyang 8mm 3.5 my self, however one
of my friends likes it on his GH2/AF100. This lens will definitely find a life with the BlackMagic camera by many people.

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PappasArts · Apr 18, 2012

Gabriel Berube said:
How does it handles skew and jellocam? Is it the same as, say, an AF100, or is it more around what the GH2 gives?

I re-looked at one of the video's and you can see it here and there. It's probably like the others- testing is what's needed. I'm sure BlackMagic has been asked that quite a lot at NAB.

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J Davis · Apr 18, 2012

I'm feeling a lot of similarity between this and the new bolex which is a kodak sensor dump. Anyone know if black magic is also a kodak sensor?

Tzedekh · Apr 18, 2012

J Davis said:
I'm feeling a lot of similarity between this and the new bolex which is a kodak sensor dump. Anyone know if black magic is also a kodak sensor?

No, it's a CMOS sensor.

J Davis · Apr 18, 2012

Tzedekh said:
No, it's a CMOS sensor.

got it ... bring on the jello tests !

Barry_Green · Apr 18, 2012

Problem with the Peleng is that it's a fisheye. It's not the 8mm you're going to want. I know, I've got one, and I've used it on the AF100 and it's nowhere near rectilinear. It's a decent lens and gives a good (fisheye) image (full circular on full frame; almost no circular vignette but way barrel distorted on R35mm, no vignette but still barrel distorted on the AF100). Maybe the smaller size of the BM will hide a little of the barrel distortion, I don't know, but I doubt folks looking for a legit wide lens are going to be happy with the Peleng.

And yeah, the iris is way wacky...

JMProductions · Apr 18, 2012

What I'm wondering is what Black Magic thought would be the lenes that we could use. They purposely decided on the EF mount (and ZE mount?) so they must of had a wide angle lens in mind or at least a bunch of options. It would be good if someone had the connections to ask them directly.

PappasArts · Apr 18, 2012

Kholi · Apr 18, 2012

I feel compelled to add this even though I shouldn't have to, for those interested would go and read John's blog:

Using the nifty and very cheap Canon 15-85 (not even L series) I got some stunning images overlooking Bondi. What amazes me about this clip is the amount of fine detail, even playing as a 264 on Vimeo. The RAW files are simply fantastic to look at, even from a very cheap consumer grade Canon lens.

The stills posted above are mostly, if not all, pulled from the Bondi video. Which was done with the cheap Canon 15-85/3.5~5.6 lens. I can't imagine this thing being the sharpest tool in the shed. Hence the overall "soft" feel of the stills, despite resolving lots of great detail (look at the buildings, etc.)

So, strange as this is gonna sound, now I really think M4/3 has a place on this camera, particularly the sharp Panasonic lenses with I.S. and other neat features.

PappasArts · Apr 18, 2012

Kholi said:
I feel compelled to add this even though I shouldn't have to, for those interested would go and read John's blog:

The stills posted above are mostly, if not all, pulled from the Bondi video. Which was done with the cheap Canon 15-85/3.5~5.6 lens. I can't imagine this thing being the sharpest tool in the shed. Hence the overall "soft" feel of the stills, despite resolving lots of great detail (look at the buildings, etc.)

So, strange as this is gonna sound, now I really think M4/3 has a place on this camera, particularly the sharp Panasonic lenses with I.S. and other neat features.

Thanks for adding that info as it's important to know looking at the frame grabs from John Brawley footage. That lens most definitely is not the "sharpest tool in the shed".

On another note has anyone noticed in the frame grabs very faint vertical lines?

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Kholi · Apr 18, 2012

PappasArts said:
Thanks for adding that info as it's important to know looking at the frame grabs from John Brawley footage. That lens most definitely is not the "sharpest tool in the shed".

On another note has anyone noticed in the frame grabs very faint vertical lines?

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I can see a pixel pattern in the moving footage, actually, if I peep closely. Which comes off as vertical lines in the right light. I've seen this before, though: the Summix camera footage had a similar look to it, very very faint pixel pattern.

Haven't seen this with any other cameras that I've used, or I just haven't peeped nearly hard enough. Is that what you're talkin' about?

Edit: Also, if anyone's curious about the purple fringing in the beach stills, gonna also assume it's the lens being used wide open and the sensor shooting through a smaller area of it. I see this a lot when using ETC mode on the GH2 and it's much worse than this. It exaggerates what's already there but not as noticeable when the lens being used for what it's intended to be; a larger sensor area. Using faster glass and getting down to this same stop (3.5~4 perhaps), shouldn't even be noticeable.

Shouldn't, anyway.

Some glass is better, some worse. Typically the cheaper lenses exhibit worse. And, again, using the GH2's 4/3 16x9 frame it's nowhere near as pronounced.

PappasArts · Apr 18, 2012

Kholi said:
I can see a pixel pattern in the moving footage, actually, if I peep closely. Which comes off as vertical lines in the right light. I've seen this before, though: the Summix camera footage had a similar look to it, very very faint pixel pattern.

Haven't seen this with any other cameras that I've used, or I just haven't peeped nearly hard enough. Is that what you're talkin' about?

More curious than worried. I assume it's a prototype issue if even any. However worth taking a peek though.

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Kholi · Apr 18, 2012

Yup, I've seen that in the summix camera footage years ago. I'm assuming it's just a beta issue and will be resolved in time for shipment.

bruceallen · Apr 18, 2012

Emanuel said:
Bruce, I and my partners, we're waiting for the end of NAB for lobbying with BMD a genlock towards a 3D version of this camera. Do you want to join the party?

YEAAAAAYYYYAAAAYYYYYYY!!!!

This is like the first time ever that anyone on DVXuser has backed me up on the "why not put genlock on cheap small light awesome cameras?" thing!

I thought I was all alone!

I am like jumping for joy here.

I will put my money where my mouth is and buy a pair of these the moment they have genlock or some kind of sync method (heck, hook up the USB ports - whatever they can do to keep perfect sync

. I already have Blackmagic's HDLink 3D and Thunderbolt 3D boxes - ah man, I'm a fan.

I'm guessing 3D might be possible via a LANC hack too... a litle bit scary though RE gauging if cams are in sync or not.

Also Blackmagic are very friendly and open and might encourage "hacking" the camera... dunno!

Or maybe the best idea is just to suggest it to them - and then when they release v2.0 (Blackmagic have a habit of doing that rather quickly

it can have genlock...

I kinda suspect that they already have plans for a v2.0 camera because why else would they have chosen EF mount? They plan for a larger sensor next time, I think.

OK - now time to hear from those crazy Apertus open source camera guys (who ARE doing genlock and stereo already, as well as a clever kind of compressed RAW) and supposedly have that high-resolution, high-fps Cmosis sensor... the clock is ticking, though. Fun!
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...e-Digital-Cinema-Camera-based-on-Elphel/page5

Of course, my other thought though is: this is just the beginning! Never underestimate Moore's law! When even boring old scientific sensors are talking about >2K, >100fps, global shutters, etc... when people are seriously talking about plenoptic and RGBZ (depth) sensors... things are just getting started!

But yeah, gimme genlock and I will put money down

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

bruceallen · Apr 18, 2012

PappasArts said:
Kholi take a look at this. UPDATED THE IMAGE

More curious than worried. I assume it's a prototype issue if any. However worth taking a peek though.

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Well spotted! That is quite common on camera platforms - often see it on RED footage when you push it too much. Black shading helps.

Actually as a matter of fact, you can partially compensate for this on the Blackmagic cam by putting the lens cap on, shooting footage (you'll get similar hot lines), then subtracting those hot lines from the image.

That's kinda what black shading on RED is doing.

Not perfect, but you can reduce it in post for sure. Just make sure you shoot some stuff with the lens cap on under similar conditions (heat, fps, etc)!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

PappasArts · Apr 18, 2012

Kholi said:
Yup, I've seen that in the summix camera footage years ago. I'm assuming it's just a beta issue and will be resolved in time for shipment.

OK, I was wondering about that.

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PappasArts · Apr 18, 2012

bruceallen said:
Well spotted! That is quite common on camera platforms - often see it on RED footage when you push it too much. Black shading helps.

Actually as a matter of fact, you can partially compensate for this on the Blackmagic cam by putting the lens cap on, shooting footage (you'll get similar hot lines), then subtracting those hot lines from the image.

That's kinda what black shading on RED is doing.

Not perfect, but you can reduce it in post for sure. Just make sure you shoot some stuff with the lens cap on under similar conditions (heat, fps, etc)!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Hey Bruce. I was seeing it in the normal version without contrast on my system. However I contrasted it up so others could see it without having to go peep mode to see it. Was more curious than anything.

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squig · Apr 18, 2012

Ahh it's a small world, me and my producer have our production meetings at a cafe 50m from where John shot the dusk footage. It's great to see a company producing a 4k camera for a reasonable price. Looking at the Bondi footage it's certainly no low light king but for 3k you can't really complain can you? It could make a great partner for my 5D MKIII. I just wish it had an APS-C sensor.

bruceallen · Apr 18, 2012

PappasArts said:
Hey Bruce. I was seeing it in the normal version without contrast on my system. However I contrasted it up so others could see it without having to go peep mode to see it. Was more curious than anything.

Well yep - you're dead right.

The reason we don't see this much on DVXuser is that in cams that aren't RAW, this is often masked by all of the noise reduction they do in-camera. And then further masked by the compression.

Though dark frame subtraction works even for compressed JPEGs:
http://www.astropix.com/HTML/J_DIGIT/JPG_DFS.HTM

With RAW cams... you really need to look out for all of this stuff. The good news is that with dark frame subtraction, you can usually achieve better results in post than in-camera.

RED is a little tricky because it theoretically does dark frame subtraction / black shading but it is finicky and every post on REDUSER about "My Epic / Scarlet is noisy" usually gets answered by "did you do Black Shading immediately beforehand?!", which is a little crazy.

Just remember to stick the lens cap on and shoot some footage! Then if it's a problem later, you can fix. All should be good.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

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