Other: BlackMagic Cinema camera!!!! 2.5k for 3k...

ArthurD said:
How can't it be? it's film ....

I think we're using 'Filmic' as an aesthetic term, a look, rather than referring to stuff just Shot on Film.

Even so, I am happy to change my wording to 'Cinematic', so you know what I'm talking about.

Shallow DoF does not automatically = Cinematic

What about Citizen Cane - Deep Focus Cinematography? Etc.

Plenty Cinematic.

This is a 'Cinema Camera', not a Film Emulation Camera.

Anyways, I'm pre-ordered and happy.

Don't like, buy something else.

A bit of personal taste anyone?


Neil.
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To John Brawley. Don't let some of the negative comments here about your technical skills bother you. We really appreciate the time you are spending away from your work to answer questions here.
 
Rick Burnett said:
It's all a matter of need. First, with my AF100 and my FS100, I got/get a lot of work doing slo-mo for many different needs. In fact, for our own productions, I shoot almost as much 60p as I do 24p as we do a lot of action material. This is a big need of mine and has been FANTASTIC on the FS100. I have a script I've been sitting on because I've wanted better slo-mo that has a scene I CANNOT WAIT to shoot on the FS700. The resolution on the BM isn't what is interesting me, just as the 4K of the FS700 isn't as important as what I list below. I am perfectly happy with the resolution of the FS100.

Second, rolling shutter is still a question. On the FS100, it's decently fast that we can go handheld without a stabilizer if need be. The FS700 is at least as fast from the tests so far.

Third, I use my 11-16 at 11mm all the time for special types of shots that we do. I don't want to give up that width as I LOVE Sony's sensor size.

Forth, I am VERY happy with Sony's battery life on the FS100, it's truly amazing. I don't want anything else hanging off the camera when I go hand held, so an extra battery while having the dead internal battery just their adding weight is a negative for me.

Fifth, Built in ND filters. I had them with the AF100 and I miss them SO dearly. I have used variableND. I've used dedicated ND. I'd rather never have to use them again.

This is why I see the BM for me as a good B camera. It can use all my lenses natively. It can give me wide DR when I need it in situations where the FS700 isn't needed. And most importantly, it would be great for greenscreen work. The biggest question for me will be rolling shutter in how well it can be utilized in our shooting styles. I think it complements other cameras and that is pretty cool.
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I agree with your points Rick. What would be really neat is if the BMC camera could double as a HyperDeck Shuttle2 to record 4:2:2 off the FS700. Possible? Impractical?
 
I'd love to see some rolling shutter tests, this is probably my biggest question. I am SOOOO tempted to pre-order one myself.

:)

(PS because I could keep my FS100 and use them together)
 
The DoF is on topic - it seems to be a huge sticking point for a lot of people.

But I agree it's been covered - though not on a wide.

We know about the DoF, and for a lot it doesn't seem to an issue - remember people there are other Camera options available if this isn't for you.

Stop looking for problems.

Now, let's discuss the other stuff.


Neil.
 
Wendt said:
I agree with your points Rick. What would be really neat is if the BMC camera could double as a HyperDeck Shuttle2 to record 4:2:2 off the FS700. Possible? Impractical?
Click to expand...


I brought this up about 50 pages ago but got no replies.

Does the Camera take an input?

This would be awesome, a Hyperdeck with a Monitor, etc.


Neil.
 
Right. The camera has a sensor already installed. Its not going to change. I'm sure they realize some people would like larger

Those that don't like it sit back and wait until next time. Those that do or are willing to find solutions continue to share them, please.
 
EXTERNAL BATTERY OPTION

DSCN1604.jpg


About 5 years ago I designed a stackable battery holder, in collaboration with the BEC group. Tekkeon make two excellent batteries for the 12V-19V range but they had no Pro caliber holder for mounting them . Tekkeon MP batteries utilize Lithium Ion cells ( same as the built-in of the BlackMagic Design 2.5K). The specific batteries that I would recommend are:
MP3450 R2 and MP3450i R2
My fav is MP3450i R2 as it has more capacity and forces you to fix the output via dip-switches, preventing overload.
*Note. I left the project before adding a double stacking holder that allows two MP batteries to be connected in series for HUGE capacity Maybe you need to ask Mike to finish that part but I'm guessing that the BMCC's internal Lithium Polymer battery's capacity is about 1/2 of the MP at 7.5 V. I see about 2 hrs of run-time from one MP without breaking a sweat

I gifted the concept of the holder to BEC group so nothing comes to me from sales- It's about occasional philanthropy that I do. The holders are felt lined and friction fit so MP batteries slide in and out with ample resistance to prevent them from falling out . I use the holders and batteries to power my cameras, small LED eng lights, external recorders and external monitors.
Tekkeon
http://tekkeon.com/products-mypowerall.html
Specifications
http://tekkeon.com/products-mypall-specs.html
BEC Group (ask for Mike) or go to BHPhotoVideo to buy.
http://www.thebecgroup.com/BEC-TEK-Tekkeon-battery-holder.html
 
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Rick Burnett said:
I'd love to see some rolling shutter tests, this is probably my biggest question. I am SOOOO tempted to pre-order one myself.

:)

(PS because I could keep my FS100 and use them together)
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That's my plan exactly....

I was just about to preorder from markertek, but I couldn't tell if it was pay in full now, or just deposit and get charged when they ship!
 
Mark Williams said:
To John Brawley. Don't let some of the negative comments here about your technical skills bother you. We really appreciate the time you are spending away from your work to answer questions here.
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Please do not confound ego or trolling of 1-2 junior posters with criticism. I didn't read anything else on the subject matter.
 
I'm fairly certain this chip size can be as cinematic as you want it to be. IF you absolutely need to be out of focus all the time slap on an 85 1.4 and stop whining. Wide lenses are inherently deep focus, even in 'real' movies, so any lens under say 24mm should have fairly deep focus, a typical viewer will not notice the difference between 11mm on this vs. say 16mm on 'super35' or even 24 on full frame.

In the early digital push, when the only choices were 2/3" or smaller, if the film was good nobody missed shallow focus close-ups, if the story still moves. I consider exclusive use of shallow close and ECU to be a TV look, ala 24, not cinematic at all. Does it look cool, hell yeah, but you lose context and spacial relationships.

I certainly welcome the move to affordable large chip cameras, it is revolutionary in terms of content creation. If you have the drive there is no excuse any more.

My only concern at this point is the wobble issue, On the video of the menu system, there was definitely Jello jiggler going on when the hand slapped the side of the camera. I had really hoped that my next upgrade after my HV20's would have solved the micro jitter issue. Anyone who still has ccd based cameras on their shelves, like the hvx200 should really be keeping them for action shots, I'd gladly take a resolution hit rather than jello for those that need them.

I'm still really exciting about what this means for independent filmmakers everywhere, and I don't doubt that we'll soon start hearing stories of these being used seemlessly along side the big boys, (enter your brand of choice) regularly on network series and probably movies.
 
what i can see they had canon 70-200 zoom on that camera ...that extreme zoom for that sensor size ...
with that focal lengths all camera with rolling shullter would have a problem ...
but in Beach Dusk video they used 35 leica (80mm fov on FF) and i didnt see lot of jello ...
 
That's one hell of an HV20 rig, Zephernoid, I keep mine fairly naked, except for maybe steadicam. Do you find being that high above the tripod messes with tilt axis? I think I'd move a lot of that stuff back on a nice offset shoulder ring, to allow for smooth handheld. Not critical, just preference. And thanks for the battery info.
 
vladszp said:
what i can see they had canon 70-200 zoom on that camera ...that extreme zoom for that sensor size ...
with that focal lengths all camera with rolling shullter would have a problem ...
but in Beach Dusk video they used 35 leica (80mm fov on FF) and i didnt see lot of jello ...
Click to expand...
A few of us tried to point this out as well, seems lost though.
 
vladszp said:
what can i see they had canon 70-200 zoom on that camera ...that extreme zoom for that sensor size ...
with that focal lengths all camera with rolling shullter would have a problem ...
but in Beach Dusk they used 35 leica (80mm fov on FF) and i didnt see lot of jello ...
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I'd like to see the equivalent of 30mm on an ~S35 and 50mm on an ~S35 myself, those are the two I'd be using most

(So with the FS100, that's a 1.5 crop compared to 2.3 of the BM, so the conversion in lens from the FS100 to BM to retain width would be x by 0.652)

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 500, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD]FS100 (1.5)[/TD]
[TD]BM (2.3)[/TD]
[TD]5D (1)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30mm[/TD]
[TD]20mm (19.56)[/TD]
[TD]45mm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]50mm[/TD]
[TD]32mm (32.61)[/TD]
[TD]75mm[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]






So basically, I'd like to see around 20mm and 32mm with some hand held action. :)
 
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