Other: BlackMagic Cinema camera!!!! 2.5k for 3k...

Barry_Green said:
Well, first thing I'd say is, I'm pretty glad I canceled my Digital Bolex pledge... :thumbsup:

I guess I'd say a lot of what most other folks have said -- it's the fulfillment of "3k for $3k" except it's "2.5k for $3k". It's an established company making it, although yeah, it's blackmagic, they're not exactly known for cameras, but so what, and the exciting thing is that they already have working versions running. It's not a vaporware announcement, it's real.

Specs that are most interesting are a raw output through a (someday) common interface (thunderbolt) and the most awesome part (to me at least) is that they have three different and accessible recording formats on top of just a raw output. They have ProRes, and DNxHD, and CinemaDNG. I was really surprised when I saw that, I thought it was going to be just a camera head with a raw port (more like the DBolex) but it supports ready-to-edit files too. That's a major plus for this.

And the price is the sweet spot. Y'know, it's been puzzling me, when did everyone all of a sudden decide that $9,000 or $14,000 or $16,000 cameras were affordable? This is a forum that was built on DVX100 and HVX200 users, and we laughed at and mocked Canon when they dared to introduce a $8,995 HDV camcorder, remember? Yet it sounds like everyone's saying "Well, I'm getting the $14,000 F3" and "I'm getting a $15,000 Scarlet" and "I'm getting the $9,000 FS700"... last I knew, the economy was still a disaster and yet everyone's talking about these (face it) really expensive cameras, so it's been a bit puzzling...

... but it sure starts to make sense when you see the reception that the DBolex got, and now the BlackMagic is getting. THIS is the price point that lots and lots of our members can afford, and it's a really startling featureset for such an affordable price.

And I like how they use an oversampling sensor, if you have to use a Bayer pattern you need higher res to make a good quality final output, so 2600 pixels should deliver a robust detailed 1080p or even 2k image. That was one thing that was a little disappointing about the Digital Bolex, that it would end up with images not really any sharper than an HVX200. This unit should (depending on software processing) be able to deliver a nicely high resolution 1080p image.

But then, after thinking about it for a little while, I started to hit on a few things that make me confident in my assessment that there's no free lunch. As I looked at it, I started to get pretty annoyed that it won't work FOR ME. For lots of you, maybe, but with just a minor design change it could have been perfect, but it isn't, and that's annoying because I want it to be perfect. The first thing that irked me to no end is: Canon EF mount? Seriously? I know it's great news for all of you with Canon lenses, but man, that's lousy news for those of us with PL lenses. You cannot adapt PL prime lenses to an EF body. So yeah, forget my $30,000 worth of Compact Primes, they just won't fit. Who makes a "cinema camera" that can't use cinema lenses? Grrr. But I should be able to use my ZFs, so not all is lost. Then there's the sensor size, I'm curious how people are really going to react to it being smaller than the GH2 and AF100. So many people insist that "S35 is the standard" and "full frame is magical", and this unit's sensor is about halfway between S16 and m43. Still a decent sized sensor, and I have no problem with it, but after a year of badgering about how the AF100's sensor is "too small" (even though it's huge, 4x bigger than a 2/3" camera) now this new BM comes out and it's a decent amount smaller still. So take that for what it's worth. But then the next thing that makes me grind my teeth a little is that they made it with a non-interchangeable and non-adaptable lens mount so all my m43 glass (which would easily cover the BM's smaller sensor) cannot possibly be used. And neither can my S16 glass. Why? Why make a fixed mount that juts two inches out of the body, which is all basically wasted space? Sigh. And the sensor's in an odd size, being halfway between S16 and m43. If it was S16 size, we could use S16 glass, but it's bigger than S16, so no S16 lenses will work. Won't make any difference to a lot of you who don't have S16 glass, but it's annoying to have a delightful 17-70 T2.2 Angenieux cinema zoom that can't be used, but it's soooo close.

And 1/4" inputs is just silly. Now, that's one of the things that bothers me the least, but yeah, come on, you got it so right with the SDI (thank heavens for that) but then you put 1/4" jacks. Huh? Again, not a big deal, just a curious decision.

Finally (and again, not a problem for many of you) but what's with the Mac-centric-ness? I'm not a Mac user, but they choose a drive format that cannot be used on Windows without having to buy a program, which for your own system is okay but what if you have to deliver footage to someone else? Meh.

It's difficult to get answers from the BlackMagic guys at the booth because a) the booth is incredibly swamped, and b) the people working the booth don't actually know the proper answers. They didn't know the sensor size, they contradict the brochure by saying it's only EF mount, etc. I think Stephen and Luis are supposed to get an interview with (hopefully) someone fairly high up who knows the real answers and I look forward to them.

The pluses on this thing are pretty huge. The negatives are a short list, and probably all eminently forgiveable considering the price tag; I hate that it's EF mount, to me (who has no Canon lenses) that's one of the most restrictive mounts they could have chosen, and I wish it was more open to use with the world's Windows computers. Of course, to our many Mac users who own Canon glass, they'll see these gripes as pluses, so hey, more power to you.

Am I a buyer? Probably. But first-day hysteria is never a good time to make a decision. Remember how the original Hyperdeck Shuttle thread went? People were absolutely over-the-moon ga-ga for it, and then by the second day they were all "wait, this won't work for me at all..." and very shortly thereafter there was a Hyperdeck Shuttle 2.0 that fixed most of the issues. So maybe they'll have the opportunity to address a couple of the gripes, but the guy at the booth did tell me they were "shipping in July" so maybe I'll grab one, maybe I'll wait for the version 2.0 with (fingers crossed) interchangeable lens mounts...

Overall, though, very impressed, very surprised, and bravo to them for thinking outside the box and just building what sooooo many people have been asking for.
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#1: Quit copying my posts:engel017:

#2: Be careful! You will get chewed out by someone for being so negative.

I actually like almost everything about this camera, if I could find a spot to preorder I would even get in line. I would, however, like to know how to set exposure with a manual-iris lens other than tethering to a thunderbolt compatible pad or laptop. I trust the answer will be revealed in the fullness of time.
 
NAB 2011 - I waited for a Panasonic AF 100 with P2 Cards, but it wasn't released, so I waited ...

In Late 2011, I prayed that the new RED Scarlet would be in my price range. It turned out to be closer in price than the original RED ONE, but would require so much debt on my end, so I waited ...

NAB 2012 - I watched the Panasonic Live Broadcast, praying for an AF 100 with P2 Cards, but that didn't happen, so I waited ...

NAB 2012 - I stayed up till midnight, hoping that RED would surprise us all with a 2K Scarlet, or any camera that was less expensive than the 4K Scarlet. I want to own a RAW video camera so bad, but that didn't happen either, so I went to bed, disappointed ...

I woke up Monday morning, ready to accept the fact that once I sell my HVX200 and 35mm Adapter, that the AF100 and the newly reduced Nanoflash are my best option. Not feeling really good about this reality, I was ready to put down the credit card and make it happen anyway. Better data rate, smaller rig, familiar Panasonic layout ...

Then I heard about the Blackmagic Design Cinema 2.5k Camera for $3,000. And it made my day. It made my year! No more waiting ... Case closed. Let the revolution begin.
 
mail4joeg said:
For the name, I've got Blagic, Black One and BM-1.

Was the rolling shutter an issue? I haven't noticed it so far.
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Pedro Guimarães tweeted some negative remark. I think based in the footage, but we can't surely know. I've requested to John some testing though.
 
Like most everybody else in here, this camera has earned my attention and I'm waiting until it's shipped and it passes the usual taste tests before I make any decisions. Watching the debates over cancelling Digital Bolex and 5DmkIII pre-orders have me waiting to see the BMD Cinecam eventually added to that list; probably even by the end of the year. This isn't like the wait and see game from a few years ago, it feels like these new cameras are going to start popping up every few months like new cell phones.
 
Digigenic said:
it feels like these new cameras are going to start popping up every few months like new cell phones.
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IDK, just look at the "Spell" this BlackMagic camera has cast on this forum. It has hit a sweet spot for sure. I'd say it's more like the first smart phone in a world of flip phones...not going to happen every few months. Sign me up for one.
 
David Saraceno said:
Can we end the "name of the camera" posts?

If you want to discuss that subject, I suggest starting a separate thread.

There are nearly a thousand posts to this point in this thread, and interested parties shouldn't be put through a series of posts suggesting names in order to learn information about the cam.

Thanks
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As a moderator, can you create a section for threads dealing with this camera? This thread is already over 85 pages, and that's after only 2 days. it would be easier to categorize our discussions that way.
 
The more I think about it, the more I believe that they really, really need to release a M4/3 version. And I'm saying that even though I own a lot of EF lenses...
 
vanvideo said:
As a moderator, can you create a section for threads dealing with this camera? This thread is already over 85 pages, and that's after only 2 days. it would be easier to categorize our discussions that way.
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This has been requested a few times already in this thread. Must have gotten lost among all the "name of the camera" posts. :P
 
I'm no pro at all, but isn't it a bit silly to ask why they didn't put a PL mount instead of the Canon? I mean, isn't this camera clearly aimed at low budget indie producers? If their goal is to get as much 5D users as possible to switch to this, BMD couldn't make a better marketing choice. Sure other mounts will be great in the future, but I think it would not have been the same with another mount at launch. They can get pros and amateurs to buy it knowing it's fully compatible with the most sold lenses in the world right now.

I fully understand how a PL mount would be better, but from a marketing perspective it's exactly what had to be done to sell tens of thousands. Just my two cents.
 
regnaleb said:
I'm no pro at all, but isn't it a bit silly to ask why they didn't put a PL mount instead of the Canon? I mean, isn't this camera clearly aimed at low budget indie producers? If their goal is to get as much 5D users as possible to switch to this, BMD couldn't make a better marketing choice. Sure other mounts will be great in the future, but I think it would not have been the same with another mount at launch. They can get pros and amateurs to buy it knowing it's fully compatible with the most sold lenses in the world right now.

I fully understand how a PL mount would be better, but from a marketing perspective it's exactly what had to be done to sell tens of thousands. Just my two cents.
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The only problem is the crop factor -- the sensor isn't full frame or even APS-C sized.
 
mhood said:
IDK, just look at the "Spell" this BlackMagic camera has cast on this forum. It has hit a sweet spot for sure. I'd say it's more like the first smart phone in a world of flip phones...not going to happen every few months. Sign me up for one.
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Well, new digital cinema cameras won't come out in the sheer numbers of phones, because the size of the digital cinema market is so much smaller.

However, the interesting thing here which opens up the possibility of more cameras being released is that Black Magic was not even a camera company! They work in the space and have know how. As has been mentioned around here more times than can be counted, a digital camera is like a computer with a lens on the front.

What I am getting at is this creates the thought that there are more players in this game than the big 3 camera makers and a few other specialty companies. Maybe Atomos will jump in the game! Maybe a software company partners with an electronics company to create a digital cinema acquisition device!

I'll bet before the BMCC nobody thought about cameras being released by anyone except camera companies.
 
This might be a dumb question, but how the hell do you shoot ultra-wide with this camera? Adapt a m4/3 lens to it? I can't really think of a single non-fisheye EF lens that would do the job.
 
John Brawley said:
Guys....

You're reading a lot into images which are made by a very early camera.

The camera currently has a similar black spot issue with extreme brightness objects like the sun...just like early RED.

They know about it and are onto it. I think this i saw this happening in resolve when I was grading.....caused by what Iw as doing in the grade more or less....

jb
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You even see the black dot with film, when the exposure reaches recioprocity failure. Ansel Adams once took advantage of this phenomenon and made a famous picture, which I believe is titled 'Black Sun'.
 
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