Black Magic PocketHD and 4K production camera

philiplipetz said:
How do you think older Super 16 cinema lenses will work without modern reflective coatings? I have seen some great work with them on REDs in 2K crop mode. Flare with backlite sun, but otherwise great.
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To a degree, isn't this all subjective? I'm not saying that we shouldnt' discuss it, at all. Just kind of thinking out loud: is the concern how perfect light projects unto the sensor or are we sort of at a place where the primary concern is "is this a look I can choose?"

I really like old Super 16 glass and the look it brings to digital sensor, though! Would love to try some S16 Zeiss Ultras out on this thing.

philiplipetz said:
The ugly secret about the BMPCC is that recording media costs are double that of the BMCC if we must use the best SD cards, as JB says.
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I bought Sandisk Extreme 64Gbs for my hacked GH2, two of them, and never needed more than that. Where did John say that the costs of media would be more than the camera? Those things are just around 125 still, aren't they?
 
carlmart said:
I'm not so sure going down in sensor size, like to S16, is the right way to go. S16 is probably the limit, as it was already blown up in films like "Leaving Las Vegas" that could be viewed in theaters with large screens.

For me "Leaving..." was the coming of age of S16. Around that time I was DP on a documentary, where film latitude was fundamental, and I could see how far film had got. If you exposed for the middle, you could print it almost 6 to 7 stops to each side and get detail in the upper knee and lower knee.

They claim 13 stops latitude for the Pocket, but will those upper and lower knees of the video sensor resolve that as elegantly as film did?

People seem to be worried mostly about low-light response, but what interests me more is how high contrast situations, like shooting in backlight, will be dealt with by the Pocket and the 4K too.

You also need very high quality glass for this too, with excellent non-reflective coatings on the lenses.

So this is what I wonder if we can get from the micro 4/3 lenses we have now.
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Not to sidetrack this thread... However, we have to remember that "Leaving Las Vegas" was done as a purely photo-chemical blow up from Super 16mm to 35mm FILM. Now, with digital scanning and processing, I personally believe that Super 16mm FILM is still a very, very viable means of motion image acquisition. I saw "Moonrise Kingdom" on the big screen and was blown away by how great it looked.

We will have to see about the Black Magic Pocket camera of course, but I concur that using the "Proper" glass is going to paramount to the success of this camera's image quality.
 
Certainly. Sorry for the big introduction to what I said in the last third: handling highlights, and how to balance sensor and lenses to get an "S16 film look" with the Pocket.

On top of that, how to do it with the affordable lenses, not the Zeiss super-expensive types.
 
Kholi said:
I bought Sandisk Extreme 64Gbs for my hacked GH2, two of them, and never needed more than that. Where did John say that the costs of media would be more than the camera? Those things are just around 125 still, aren't they?
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Look at the price of Sandisk Extreme Pro cards, which are what JB recommends.
 
philiplipetz said:
Look at the price of Sandisk Extreme Pro cards, which are what JB recommends.
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Yes, I know what the prices are, I owned a pair of them for my GH2 and they cost 174 back then. Now the 64gb's 129.99 and likely less by the time the camera's shipping.

Maybe I misread what you were saying, but how does the media cost more than the camera?
 
David G. Smith said:
Not to sidetrack this thread... However, we have to remember that "Leaving Las Vegas" was done as a purely photo-chemical blow up from Super 16mm to 35mm FILM. Now, with digital scanning and processing, I personally believe that Super 16mm FILM is still a very, very viable means of motion image acquisition. I saw "Moonrise Kingdom" on the big screen and was blown away by how great it looked.

We will have to see about the Black Magic Pocket camera of course, but I concur that using the "Proper" glass is going to paramount to the success of this camera's image quality.
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Some of the most beautiful stuff I have shot was with this Bolex camera….it's retired now but I did a glory reel of it.
 
Kholi said:
Yes, I know what the prices are, I owned a pair of them for my GH2 and they cost 174 back then. Now the 64gb's 129.99 and likely less by the time the camera's shipping.

Maybe I misread what you were saying, but how does the media cost more than the camera?
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not twice as much as camera, but twice as much as SSDs for BMCC.
 
Michael Schrengohst said:
Some of the most beautiful stuff I have shot was with this Bolex camera….it's retired now but I did a glory reel of it.
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Nice clip Michael !!!

Now we just need an image stabilized 8mm f/2.8 lens that is the size of that Canon lens on the Bolex for the Pocket cam. Assuming they actually get the m4/3 mount sorted. It would be the ultimate setup for my jib pole stabilizer setup I'm developing. Ultra light with super high quality image that you can fly on a pole out to 20' or so like a quad copter.

Cheers,
Pete
 
Michael Schrengohst said:
Some of the most beautiful stuff I have shot was with this Bolex camera….it's retired now but I did a glory reel of it.
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I still have my Bolex. It is an H-16 with a 17-85mm f2.0 (T-2.66) SOM Berthiot Pan Cinor zoom lens and the battery powered constant speed MST motor. I love the camera and also shot some nice stuff with it.
 
Forgive me for not wanting to dig through 71 pages of this thread to find the answer.

Has anyone seen the BMC 4k footage yet? A quick google search revealed nothing. Did they show footage at NAB? And if not, when is the expected date to see some? If the camera is coming out is 2.5 months, surely someone has seen footage!
 
traviswears said:
Forgive me for not wanting to dig through 71 pages of this thread to find the answer.

Has anyone seen the BMC 4k footage yet? A quick google search revealed nothing. Did they show footage at NAB? And if not, when is the expected date to see some? If the camera is coming out is 2.5 months, surely someone has seen footage!
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Nope - no footage from the 4K camera yet….I bet they will get the Pocket Cam shipping to distract attention from the 4K….I doubt the 4K will ship until EOY.
 
They did show BM 4K footage at NAB, or at least they claimed it to be so.

A friend of mine saw it there and told me it was awesome, very natural looking.
 
Perhaps to aid the more sensitive customers, Black Magic needs to advertise the features that their cameras don't have, the ones that other advertisers don't tout because the customer expects it--like "recording time remaining on the memory card". No one likes surprises.
 
Kraut69 said:
Perhaps to aid the more sensitive customers, Black Magic needs to advertise the features that their cameras don't have, the ones that other advertisers don't tout because the customer expects it--like "recording time remaining on the memory card". No one likes surprises.
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There are at least two primary forums for smart consumers to look to for information before making a purchase. Not sure of a single manufacturer that lists what a product does NOT do unless that's a selling point.
 
With a $1000 camera, they are moving into a market now where the customers like the small things in life.
 
Kraut69 said:
Perhaps to aid the more sensitive customers, Black Magic needs to advertise the features that their cameras don't have, the ones that other advertisers don't tout because the customer expects it--like "recording time remaining on the memory card". No one likes surprises.
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Going along this line...they should really change their product page. Raw will not be on the pocket cam when it ships, yet it says nothing about that AT ALL. Now, for those of us that follow these things very closely, it will not be misleading. Those who pick up tid bits on the web from many articles which also say nothing about it...will be like WTF? Not to mention, B and H and others say NOTHING either. It is false advertising, plain and simple, as far as I'm concerned, and I have one on pre order...lol

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/techspecs

Someone doing research about the camera through these pages and suppliers descriptions will think it ships with Cinema DNG Raw recording.
 
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Emanuel said:
This obsession with the fear of rolling shutter for 2D production is simply annoying... : ) I wonder myself what will come next when there will have no more reasons to complain or concern about :P
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Depends on what you're shooting...

Rolling shutter effect. Kalimba playing shot on Canon 5D Mk II - YouTube


curious stroboscopic effect - YouTube


Not to mention gunfire, strobes (ambulances, cop cars etc), helicopter footage from certain angles...


Also footage with rolling shutter artifacts is a nightmare for the VFX guys. It interferes with 3D tracking packages, which is a necessary step for the integration of CG elements in the scene, reconstructing or augmenting a set with extensions etc.

A certain amount of jello can be removed in packages like Nuke or After Effects, but there is no magic bullet cure all. Also keep in mind that any processing like that involves subpixel transformations that will essentially cut the resolution of your footage in half.
 
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