Black Magic PocketHD and 4K production camera

Sfernald said:
Umm, I agree with everything you are saying about their popularity because of their ergonomics and all that (I owned a c100), but I'm not sure what that has to do what I'm saying... That Canon is largely differentiating a 6k camera from a 13k camera based on codec with the 13k camera having a broadcast codec and the 6k camera having a prosumer codec. Obviously there are other differences, the evf and the LCD and so forth, but it amazing how similar the hardware is.
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You are right, that is stupid, but I also think that particularly for broadcast in 2013, the 'prosumer codec' gate has been stormed. As many have pointed out here and other places, its pretty tough to tell what camera you used unless you skies are banding all-to-hell.

There really was no good reason for a C100, they could have just released a C300 with some sort of 'codec lock' that people could upgrade or rent (a la the new Convergent recorder), a C300 'lite' would have been way cheaper to develop than an entire C100 with a flakey viewfinder to remind you how you saved $7K.

I hate the Apple-BMCC comparison, but that's way off-topic.
 
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dustylense said:
Compared to Arri Master Primes??? Or even the ultra Primes????
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No not comparing, just saying wouldn't these Ziess Cine EF lenses work just fine with a camera that costs 4K? If you're gonna use Arri Master Primes then you can probably shoot on an Arri.

Here's some lenses reviewed by Laforet and they come in EF or PL.

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/mygear/lenses/cine-lenses/

I would love something like this because I always want wide and fast for those tight dark spots, but it's way expensive:

http://www.borrowlenses.com/product/canon/Schneider_CineXenar_III_18mmT22_EF_Mount
 
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Gillvane said:
No not comparing, just saying wouldn't these Ziess Cine EF lenses work just fine with a camera that costs 4K? If you're gonna use Arri Master Primes then you can probably shoot on an Arri.
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While the Zeiss has interchangeable mounts which is good, I look at glass buying as the ultimate investment (I have glass that is 40 years old that I will NEVER sell). You're going to lock your future into buying those Zeiss or Canon C lenses? You can always rent I suppose. But why rent Zeiss glass when you can rent Arri glass? How about all the wonderful Cooke glass sitting around?

Look, I'm a fan of BMC. Just not a FANatic. Just seems to be so much emotion behind these cameras. But somebody said "why are broadcast shooter even in here". Because were looking at a camera with a stills photo mount? So let me ask in return. "Why are cinema guys in here looking at a camera with a stills lens mount". (Those Zeiss Cp.2s. They are Zeiss ZF's just rehoused). Hey, at least BMD will get the flange distance right on these now cameras this time :laugh:
 
LyleGorch said:
I hate the Apple-BMCC comparison, but that's way off-topic.
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Yeah, I was coming here to post how Apple and Blackmagic almost couldn't be more opposite in their corporate philosophies (I've seen a few people make this comparison), but like you said, off-topic.
 
dustylense said:
So let me ask in return. "Why are cinema guys in here looking at a camera with a stills lens mount". (Those Zeiss Cp.2s. They are Zeiss ZF's just rehoused). Hey, at least BMD will get the flange distance right on these now cameras this time :laugh:
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PL glass optically is no better than good SLR glass. It has smooth focus rings and an aperture that has no clicks. But anamorphics breathe like MAD (watch Super 8 which was shot on anamorphics and you'll see horrendous breathing when they pull focus).

What makes PL special are the precise focus pulling marks but it is highly overrated and I'd bet you couldn't tell the difference between that and good SLR glass any day of the week.
 
dustylense said:
While the Zeiss has interchangeable mounts which is good, I look at glass buying as the ultimate investment (I have glass that is 40 years old that I will NEVER sell). You're going to lock your future into buying those Zeiss or Canon C lenses? You can always rent I suppose. But why rent Zeiss glass when you can rent Arri glass? How about all the wonderful Cooke glass sitting around?

Look, I'm a fan of BMC. Just not a FANatic. Just seems to be so much emotion behind these cameras. But somebody said "why are broadcast shooter even in here". Because were looking at a camera with a stills photo mount? So let me ask in return. "Why are cinema guys in here looking at a camera with a stills lens mount". (Those Zeiss Cp.2s. They are Zeiss ZF's just rehoused). Hey, at least BMD will get the flange distance right on these now cameras this time :laugh:
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Everyone loves unique glass, especially old and vintage glass. It just gives a look that has that something special to it, there's no arguing with that.

But the new EF mount glass is really good.

24mm T/1.5 L F

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[TD="width: 50, align: center"] B&H [/TD]
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[TH="colspan: 4"] VL: This would we one of the most common focal lengths I use for cine and at 1.5 – we’re entering the Arri Master Prime range…. I haven’t had a chance to do head to head vs Zeiss yet but will update once I have done some lens tests
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http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/mygear/lenses/cine-lenses/
 
I agree that the new Canon C' glass is good. But man, look at your source. V LaForet? I bet he could get you to buy a Canon toaster. I'm not really arguing with you that you can mount EF cine glass to the BMC. My initial response was to the comment made about broadcast shooters in here looking at a BMC thread. When this camera with IT'S MOUNT is targeted at Indie guys and people that want to go from Hdlsr to something like a RED without the investment.
 
Steve Kahn said:
PL glass optically is no better than good SLR glass. It has smooth focus rings and an aperture that has no clicks. But anamorphics breathe like MAD (watch Super 8 which was shot on anamorphics and you'll see horrendous breathing when they pull focus).

What makes PL special are the precise focus pulling marks but it is highly overrated and I'd bet you couldn't tell the difference between that and good SLR glass any day of the week.
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Optically, sure. Mechanical and focus breathing? Not so sure. 18 blades vrs 8 blades? Again, not so sure. Having 6 lenses from 18mm to 120 mm that are identical in size so that re-rigging the camera? If SLR glass was good enough, why are there $80,000 PL zooms? Come on man. Go ask any camera op if he had the choice between Cp2s or Ultra Primes which he would choose. Go watch any BTS of a major release and tell me why they have $25000 PL's mounted. It's not because they think those lenses are cool....
 
Shenan said:
Yeah, I was coming here to post how Apple and Blackmagic almost couldn't be more opposite in their corporate philosophies (I've seen a few people make this comparison), but like you said, off-topic.
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Huhm, I don't think its offtopic. The reason we even have the BMCP is because BMD is cannibalizing their own products. Sure BMD is saying there are differences products, but come on. I'm sure there will be a lot of people cancelling their BMCC and preordering the BMCP instead. This is what apple use to do. Heck, BMD could have just kept the BMCP in the closet until next year to keep on milking the BMCC, but they didn't.

In any case, interesting times. I wonder if one of these days, BMD will be bigger than canon or panasonic. They are doing a good job of disrupting the field and I'm assuming making a lot of money.
 
dustylense said:
I agree that the new Canon C' glass is good. But man, look at your source. V LaForet? I bet he could get you to buy a Canon toaster. I'm not really arguing with you that you can mount EF cine glass to the BMC. My initial response was to the comment made about broadcast shooters in here looking at a BMC thread. When this camera with IT'S MOUNT is targeted at Indie guys and people that want to go from Hdlsr to something like a RED without the investment.
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I have a Canon toaster and it makes very good toast! I had one way before Laforet reviewed it.


867755772_5f9b2c8138.jpg
 
Yes actually it is. I live and work in Hollywood. DPs commonly ask for Ultra Primes over CP2s precisely because they are cool.
 
Razz16mm said:
The problem is that cheap off the shelf retail data SSD's aren't designed for many continuous record to capacity/ erase/ format/ repeat cycles or repeated mechanical insertion/extraction cycles. Most drives won't work at all for HD or higher video recording, and many will have very short lives even if they do work when new. Price out enterprise grade SLC server SSD's and you will see a different cost picture. This is not just for cameras either. I was pricing digital signage servers for a client and asked the supplier to quote SSD's. They strongly recommended sticking to standard hard drives as they are much more reliable for constant video stream throughputs.

There is a reason every major file based video camera manufacturer makes their own proprietary media for their high end video codec products, reliability, reliability, reliability.

Across their entire line Black Magic's reputation is for producing cheap high performance products with mediocre reliability and quality.
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Gillvane said:
I have a Canon toaster and it makes very good toast! I had one way before Laforet reviewed it.


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To be honest, that toaster looks a lot like a BMCC! Lol.
 
Is like Deja vu all over again! It is amazing but it really repeats itself. It is the usual non-sense talk that follows the announcement of every new camera! All the "experts" here and their "opinions". It just makes you laugh real hard! I really hope the pocket camera is really out in July. It is hard to read so much crap for a long time! Cheers!
 
John Caballero said:
Is like Deja vu all over again! It is amazing but it really repeats itself. It is the usual non-sense talk that follows the announcement of every new camera! All the "experts" here and their "opinions". It just makes you laugh real hard! I really hope the pocket camera is really out in July. It is hard to read so much crap for a long time! Cheers!
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True, each new camera has a ton of reaction/overreaction now. I do see the Pocket cam in particular as something very unprecedented though.
Here are some firsts for a camera anywhere near it's price point:
1. 13 stops of DR
2. Compressed raw
3. 10 bit 4:2:2

And from the Purely subjective file: Arguably the most film like image anywhere near it's price.(judging footage from the same sensor in the BMCC)

For reference, I've never pre ordered anything in my life, but I believe this thing is a revelation for no budget/low budget films/projects.
 
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