Biggest problems with the A7S Ii

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filmguy123

Veteran
I'm fiercely debating the GH5 and staying in the m43 camp, or moving to the Sony A7S II. I have a product branding shoot coming up which I have full control on, and I want to invest everything into gear.

I would love to hear unbiased reviews from people in the A7S II camp. What are the sore spots with the camera, and what should I be aware of? I know everything is a compromise.

I'm actually debating between A7S II, FS7, and C300 MkII. I know that sounds insane, but price isn't the largest driving factor as much as workflow and associated costs. Here's how I see it:

A7S II + Atomos Infero + Xume Magnetic Adaptor with Variable ND Filters + Zeiss Milvus Lenses
FS5 + Atomos Inferno, Zeiss Milvus
FS7 or C300, all internal, Zeiss Milvus

I'm a one man band and flexibility in operation is paramount.

Gimbal: I have a Zhiyun Crane and I would very much like to be able to fly my rig, which is a huge hit against the FS7 or C300. I know I could still fly my existing GH4 but I want the gimbal shots to match, and dynamic range and low light is essential on those too.

It's the primary reason I am considering A7S II. I can attach the Inferno to the crane itself so the payload isn't on the motors.

As such, what will I NOT like about the A7S II? What will I miss?

I know I will miss VFR (36fps, 48fps, 72fps, etc.) that is available on GH series and C300/FS7. Perhaps some of the menu systems on Panasonic. What else?

And of course, all coming back to just staying in the GH camp... I'm just nervous if I can get the higher end corporate look I want out of the GH cameras.
 
I'm a new A7Sii owner coming from using video cameras and so far I am not thrilled about the short battery life.
I got the 2 battery grip and that helps. I don't like having to add extra things that a proper video camera has built-in like ND and XLR either.
What I do like is that it is small unless you have to rig it up.
And I do like internal 4K UHD , even though it's not 60p.
Since I have other cameras for the various jobs i do the a7sii fills some voids I had. But if I could only have 1 camera I personally would not want it to be the A7sii unless it does what you need for all the jobs you do. But since you need small and light for the gimbal, I don't know if the FS5 is too big?
Perhaps people that use all these cameras will chime in
 
Like you said, everything is a compromise. All of these cameras have their own strengths and weaknesses, and a problem for one person might not even be an observation to another.

My only complaint about the A7sII is not being able to shoot 4K in the APS-C mode (obviously), so you need full-frame lenses. (I wouldn't use any of the zooming tricks.)

If I were interested in those 3 cameras and Milvus lenses and also flying a camera, I would probably get the FS7 and the A6300 for the gimbal. (Or the FS7 II and the A6500 if finances allowed.) Keep it all in the Sony family.

The Milvus line is stunning, but if I had a C300 Mark II, I would want to take advantage of the auto-focus and you won't be able to do that with them. (Unless you have some Canon lenses too?)

The GH5 looks fantastic, but I want that camera from someone else like Sony or Canon with a bigger sensor.

If the A7sIII ends up having mind-blowing specs, I would pick one up and a 24-70mm Master and call it a day, haha.
 
I wish it records 10-bit 4:2:2 internally, but the Atomos will take care of that for your needs.

If low light performance is a factor, and it was for us, then the A7S ii is a fabulous camera, especially for us.

Battery life is terrible, but we knew that going in. And there are workarounds.

Full frame lenses are pricey, but worth it. We have the the 24-70 f/4 and will buy the FE 70-200mm f/2.8 GM (G Master) when it becomes available again.
 
filmguy123 said:
A7S II + Atomos Infero + Xume Magnetic Adaptor with Variable ND Filters + Zeiss Milvus Lenses
FS5 + Atomos Inferno, Zeiss Milvus
FS7 or C300, all internal, Zeiss Milvus
Click to expand...

Also being a 1-man-band and a full-time freelancer, I know the difficulty in making this choice!
I do a ton of live events, including concerts, NHL coverage, docs, weddings, and the usual corporate shoots, short films, etc.

In the end, it will come down to what fits your style best. My 2 cents (in my situation):

A7s w/add-ons -> pain in the @**. Even reading the description... man.... Just.. no.... batteries dying.... battery solutions... screw on filters....ugh (and I own an A7s)
FS5 -> yes.... atomos... no..... again, add-on... pain.... more batteries.... arm... extra setup....
FS7 or C300 -> Yes... 100% - all internal. No messing around with an extra set of batteries, extras, attachments, etc etc.

I own an FS7 and an A7s. A7s is strictly for WAY too dark scenarios, or when I need a 2nd angle on corporate interviews. Thats it. ( I don't do stills at all btw)
Having the flexibility to use my main camera for literally any situation is golden. Wedding one day, on-ice-interview outdoors for international broadcaster the next (NHL), corporate interviews w/b-roll, etc etc - all with one camera with no add ons... nearly priceless for me!
I would love to own a RED/Alexa Mini, but it would cut me off from doing the broadcast work / live event work I'm doing.
I would love to only use a tiny A7s/GH series camera, but when I need to run all day shoulder-mount style and events... they would seriously be a pain in my @$$.

As an all-rounder, if I didn't own a camera, I would buy an FS5 or FS7.... Or on a budget, C100 (amazing camera). If you are strictly video, don't even consider the stills cameras that 'do video as well'.
I'm seriously debating unloading the A7s for a 1DXii for the autofocus just for weddings, and having a lean wedding setup..... but even then, the 1Dxii wouldn't replace the FS7 for the main bulk of my work.

Once you've had a "proper" camera (NDs, Audio, ergonomics, codec, frame rates, etc), you'll wonder how you mickey-moused around with DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras for so long.

Even if its a stretch on the budget, go for an all-in-one camera, not an A7s/dslr/mirroless cam that you have to buy tons of attachments/extras for to make it into something you want it to be.

My 2 cents anyway!
 
If price isn't a factor, go with a FS5 and A6500 as B/gimbal cam.

Between A7S II and GH5, the GH seems the clear winner with its spectacular specs. If you don't need low light/high ISO, the GH5 will serve you better. Besides the groundbreaking specs, the new GH5 no doubt will continue the excellent tradition of the GH series being better optimized for video, from usability to reliability and dependability. The GH series is just better made. I love (to hate) my A7S II, but it just doesn't quite have its act together yet. It can be frustrating to use. My biggest gripe about the Sony has to be the unreliable buggy software freezing up. I have missed critical shots and sworn at the finicky thing too darn many times. Built quality too isn't as good as the GH4. For an expensive pro full-frame camera, you would think it would be more robust. It can't take dings and scratches as well as the GH. I have dropped my GH4 twice and nothing was affected. I dropped the S II once and the battery door now needs more effort to open and close, and the LCD has a fine crack in one corner. The S II also can't handle inclement weather like the GH. I am in deep winter freeze now and I would not choose the II over the GH for outdoors.

The atrocious S II battery is such a bummer. I can shoot the GH all day with one battery. With the S II I carry 5 batteries.

The A7S II has too many quirks, limitations and compromises for a $3K pro camera. If I didn't need low light, I would carry only the GH4. Has the GH5 improved on high ISO that I wouldn't need to bother with the Sony at all?
 
Most of it has been said multiple times. I will only echo your decision to use the Xume magnetic filter adapters. They are brilliant and you can stack a few even on a moderately wide lens. If you don't have a lot of filters consider going oversize with your filters and use an initial step up ring on the lens and then the Xume adapters and the filters. This will remove vignetting problems when you stack filters, like a diffusion, ND and maybe a polarizer or whatever. Put the filters in a pouch on your belt if you go this route.
 
Andrew - done, done, and done! Cool to hear someone else who has the same workflow. Don't know how anyone else does it otherwise. I'm all step up rings to 77mm and I just swap my ND in a second when I change lenses.

Re: all in one cameras VS GH style with extra kit, I don't disagree but I will say I actually moved to the GH after owning DVX, HVX, AF100. And after a couple years on the GH I've adapted well with solutions like the above and what Andrew mentioned, and have come to actually be nervous about going back to something like the FS7/C300 for my shooting style. They are so much heavier and bulkier. I love the speed at which I can work on the GH and the versatility of the small cameras.

The main reason I would switch away from the GH5 to another system would be the "larger sensor look" and dynamic range improvements. Correct me if I am wrong but I just can't seem to get my GH cameras to look as cinematic as the C300 or even A7S II footage, or BM Ursa Mini etc. I can get fantastic looking footage, but its just different. I am wondering though if GH5 vlog will solve this problem for me much, or if I just need to move up.
 
Why would an fs5 not be the thing

all the joy of a video camera, semi competent onboard codec and recorder when you want to get silly

all that gimbal balancing faff.. you just need a second cam for that
 
Apart from what has already been said...

I absolutely hate external recorders. They can be very unreliable and will slow you down. The image is better, but the difference is VERY small: this internal 8-bit 420 codec is way better than old 8-bit 420 stuff.

And the xume system is nice, but I wouldn't use variable ND filters. Regular filters are better, and if you're going magnetic they're not such a pain to deal with.

And no, the GH5 is not better than the original a7S unless it proves it has the DR, at least for me: I don't care about resolution half as much as I care about dynamic range, and I don't need 10-bit if the camera doesn't have more DR than the ancient 5D2.
 
For your primary rig, I'd say steer clear of any mirrorless camera if you have the budget for something better. Having a proper camera with XLR's, ND's, adjustable EVF, large batteries, etc, is invaluable in fast-paced or high-pressure situations. It'll also save you time and avoid numerous headaches both on set and in post.

Get something smaller for those couple of shots on the gimbal, like an A6300. But for your bread-n-butter camera, forget about anything that is not a proper video camera.
 
The main reason I would switch away from the GH5 to another system would be the "larger sensor look" and dynamic range improvements. Correct me if I am wrong but I just can't seem to get my GH cameras to look as cinematic as the C300 or even A7S II footage, or BM Ursa Mini etc. I can get fantastic looking footage, but its just different. I am wondering though if GH5 vlog will solve this problem for me much, or if I just need to move up.
Click to expand...

There was a long thread about this a couple years ago. In theory, a 16mm aps-c shot is identical to a 24mm full frame shot but there's something about aps-c shots--the background looks more compressed than full-frame.

Of course, it's not just sensor size that makes it look cinematic--there's shooting log with more DR, less contrasty lenses, shallow DOF, grading with darker colors, crushed blacks, your framing, low sharpness settings, etc..
 
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^ Different lenses give different images, and I believe that's what people are seeing. Because no: it doesn't compress any different, as long as you don't move the camera and adjust the lens and aperture to get the same image. My tests (scroll down to go to the mouseover comparisons).
The problem is: I can get a 12mm f/2.0 for Sony E (Samyang), and a 18mm f/2.8 for Sony FE (Batis). Where's the rectilinear 9mm f/1.4 for m43? (for 50mm FF and 85mm FF, you can almost get there with the m43 speedbooster, but then the corners are not as sharp as they are with the bigger sensor)
 
filmguy123 said:
Andrew - done, done, and done! Cool to hear someone else who has the same workflow. Don't know how anyone else does it otherwise. I'm all step up rings to 77mm and I just swap my ND in a second when I change lenses.
Click to expand...

Xume Adapters are great, & I use them on almost all my SLR, & Mirrorless, lenses. By design they provide a "temporary connection" so I always use them inside a hood that's attached directly to a lens. Also they're so fast to switch that there's little reason to use Variable NDs with their associated optical issues.

Below is some info from Xume's FAQ page.

"Is it really secure?
Yes. Your filters will be easy to remove when needed but will be held securely in place until then. The force required to remove a filter is significantly greater than your camera would ever be subjected to during normal use, however we strongly suggest the use of an over the lens type hood at all times to protect your filter from an accidental detachment, especially when using heavier variable ND filters. Take extra care when using variable ND filters as they are very heavy and can be unstable. Please try yours in a controlled environment to insure that the connection feels secure and stable. Use caution if setting your camera on a table top or other flat surface and prevent it from falling forward and knocking your filter loose. When you are using them regularly it is easy to forget, but please remember that the adapters provide a temporary connection by design.

What if I need to use a lens hood?
Over the lens type hoods should fit normally and are recommended. A rubber lens hood is not a problem, however, do not mount a filter onto the lens hood for use with the adapters. Either mount a holder onto the hood for quick release use or install the hood directly onto the lens and mount the adapter into the hood for dedicated and/or long-term use. The best practice is to test and insure that you are comfortable with the connection.

Can I still use step rings?
Yes, however step rings make it impossible to use an over-the-lens hood. If necessary, the preferred method is to use a step-up ring on your lens and the next higher size filter and adapter. In other words, a 77-82mm step ring on your lens with an 82mm filter with our adapters. We don't recommend a step down ring on a filter as it adds weight and increases the chance of an accidental detachment."

http://www.xumeadapters.com/faqs-2/
 
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filmguy123 said:
Andrew - done, done, and done! Cool to hear someone else who has the same workflow. Don't know how anyone else does it otherwise. I'm all step up rings to 77mm and I just swap my ND in a second when I change lenses.

Re: all in one cameras VS GH style with extra kit, I don't disagree but I will say I actually moved to the GH after owning DVX, HVX, AF100. And after a couple years on the GH I've adapted well with solutions like the above and what Andrew mentioned, and have come to actually be nervous about going back to something like the FS7/C300 for my shooting style. They are so much heavier and bulkier. I love the speed at which I can work on the GH and the versatility of the small cameras.

The main reason I would switch away from the GH5 to another system would be the "larger sensor look" and dynamic range improvements. Correct me if I am wrong but I just can't seem to get my GH cameras to look as cinematic as the C300 or even A7S II footage, or BM Ursa Mini etc. I can get fantastic looking footage, but its just different. I am wondering though if GH5 vlog will solve this problem for me much, or if I just need to move up.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, my "wisdom" on using step-up rings prior to the Xume adapters comes from experience. All my lenses have 77mm fronts except for one Sony lens I have. Put a DECENT step-up ring on that one so I could use all of my 77mm filters on that lens as well. If I were to do it all over again I would go up a size or two from 77mm. Only issue with that is, the filter selection and availability drops off dramatically after 77mm especially with diffusion filters and of course there is the cost. The bigger the filter in size the bigger the price. I initally got into the Xume adapters for Steadicam work. It is not uncommon to end up gaffer taping a panavision sized filter onto a lens in order to keep the weight down. I also began purchasing 77mm difussion filters before buying the big ones. Typically a 77mm difusion can be had for well under $100 USD whereas the same filter but in a 4"x5.65" size can cost $300 to $450. Once I had a bunch of these, the Xume adapters made sense. Extremely useful when you have to deal with high ND situations like with the Sony a7s in Slog2 with a native iso of 3200.
 
filmguy123 said:
I'm fiercely debating the GH5 and staying in the m43 camp, or moving to the Sony A7S II. I have a product branding shoot coming up which I have full control on, and I want to invest everything into gear.

I would love to hear unbiased reviews from people in the A7S II camp. What are the sore spots with the camera, and what should I be aware of? I know everything is a compromise.

I'm actually debating between A7S II, FS7, and C300 MkII. I know that sounds insane, but price isn't the largest driving factor as much as workflow and associated costs. Here's how I see it:

A7S II + Atomos Infero + Xume Magnetic Adaptor with Variable ND Filters + Zeiss Milvus Lenses
FS5 + Atomos Inferno, Zeiss Milvus
FS7 or C300, all internal, Zeiss Milvus

I'm a one man band and flexibility in operation is paramount.

Gimbal: I have a Zhiyun Crane and I would very much like to be able to fly my rig, which is a huge hit against the FS7 or C300. I know I could still fly my existing GH4 but I want the gimbal shots to match, and dynamic range and low light is essential on those too.
Click to expand...

It's a tough decision. If good color out of the camera is top prority that will serious affect how you priorize these cameras. I have an a7s, not the new model. The color is better with the a7s mkII but we are talking degrees of better. The color is obviously better on most of the other cameras.

With all the cameras under consideration, a good weight and small enough size sound like very important things to you.

If you can wait for the GH5 I would, not just for it's arrival and real world tests but also it was strongly hinted by industry insiders at last year after NAB that this year was going to be a camera year. I actually don't think there is a clear answer to your question. Simply too many variables, many of which are going to be based on personal preference.

For me on any camera, exposure and color tools are paramount. I rely on the Odyssey and sometimes a Flanders Scientific monitor for this. Can I presume the exposure tools on the ATOMOS unit is on par?

Ostensibly the specs of the GH5 on most levels is going to eclipse many of the important things the other cameras can do. The clean 10 bit 4:2:2 HDMI (on 4K/60p) as well as the HDMI cable clamp on the GH5 should be weighted heavily in the decision making process. Even without utilizing an outboard recorder on the GH5 you have so many high frame and 10 bit recording options built into the camera, along with the good color out of the box and the low cost, make the camera almost a slam dunk. If the camera isn't what it's billed upto be you won't be out +$10K like you would with some of the other cameras.
 
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FS7 and A6500. FS7 is the point of diminishing return in a "real" camera. A6500 is the same sensor size/mount and cheap enough to buy 2 and you have matching 3 camera shoot potential!
 
If these two look identical, it should be easy enough for aps-c users to make the adjustments.

50mm lens set at f/5.6, 1/50s and ISO 1600 on a full frame camera=
31mm lens set at f/3.5, 1/50s and ISO 600 on an APS-C camera

Yet, you hear aps-c users say they want a "full-frame look" over and over again. Year after year. Maybe it's all in their head. Maybe it's harder to achieve the look if the lowest you can go on your lens is f4.
 
While most my circular filters have 77mm threads I also regurely use a collection of 58mm filters, primarily on Panasonic's 12-35/2.8, & 35-100/2.8. The beauty of the GH4 is it size so I try not to bulk it up, & filters that fit inside the lens hoods helps keep the system compact, while also protecting the Xume's connection.

In contrast most of my EF, & E-mount, lens are either natively 77mm, or equipped with step-up 'Cine Rings' with an 80mm outer diameter, & 77mm threads. For lenses that are fitted with one of these adapter rings I use either a small clamp-on wide-angle lens hood, or a screw-in 77mm Mamiya RZ rubber lens hood. When using the clamp-on hood I attach the Xume directly to the 'Cine Ring', whereas when using the Mamiya the hood gets screwed onto the front of the 'Cine Ring', & the Xume gets attached to the hood's front threads. With either setup I can quickly add/swap filters without removing the hoods.

The Mamiya RZ hoods are very robust & pretty great for use with Xume Adapters, while the wide-angle clamp-on is a bit less. I don't have the Mamiyas in front of me, & can't remember the model number, but they're the two widest screw-in versions, one designed for a modest wide-angle, & the other a 'Normal'. There are two other rubber RZ hoods, one a 80mm slip-on wide-angle that's square in shape, & a screw-in telephoto version, both of which are not good for use with the Xumes.

I also use 82mm Xumes on some lenses, & wish they were available in 95mm. Be great if they were available in all common circular filter sizes.

While I'm obviously a fan of Xume Adapers I'm even more of a fan of built-in NDs, & most the other features of dedicated motion cameras. Also a fan of Matte Boxes, just not always.
 
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If I was to get 1 (or 2) diffusion filters for GH4/GH5, what would they be? Tiffen Pro Mist 1/8 and 1/4? Just to give things a slightly more filmic look.

Any examples of non contrasty lenses? Where does Voigtlander glass fall on the spectrum, VS say the Panasonic Lumix line-up?

It seems to me that most of the feedback here is that the A7sII is cool but no one seems stoked on it...
 
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