Better deal in HDSLRs

C

Carlos_E._Martinez

Well-known member
I'm asking this question with a sort of interrogation mark in my head and with a bit of ingenuitty.

HDSLR cameras are becoming more and more expensive, and in my mind almost nulling what they were supposed to be, at least for me.

They got to a point, like with e.g.: Canon 5D Mark III, that they rival (and lose) with cameras like the Sony FS100 or the uncoming Blackamagic camera.

So I wonder, I am genuinely asking this: what are the most affordable high quality HDSLR cameras money can buy.

How do they compare in image quality, using the same lens, with Canon's 5D Mk II or Mk III, if those are the ones to look up to?

For instance and just as an example, I just saw a Sony Nex-7 camera with 18-55 zoom selling for $ 1,250 at Amazon. Of course, this is not a reflex camera, so you will depend on screen quality.

Bottom line: is there anything worth trying for around $1,500 with 24-105 zoom at least?


EDIT: Very important. Used equipment and video cameras are not an option. They have to be photo cameras with video capability.
 
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For $1500? How about a used 5Dmk2? :D

then there's the GH2, GH3, NEX5/6/7... bumping up to $2K, you can get the Canon 6D, Nikon D600, probably a used AF100...

Plenty of choices out there, more than there used to be.
 
Yes, I did think about the 5D MkII, which I believe is a much better deal than the III. In fact, from what I could read, there are no important matters that the III improved over the II that justifies almost double the price. Particularly no video matters, which are the only ones I care about.

I did open another thread on Canon section asking if I could still find new 5D Mk IIs to buy. Even if with lens and all it goes to $ 2,600 or a bit more.

BTW: no used equipment for me, only new.
 
carlmart said:
Yes, I did think about the 5D MkII, which I believe is a much better deal than the III. In fact, from what I could read, there are no important matters that the III improved over the II that justifies almost double the price. Particularly no video matters, which are the only ones I care about.

I did open another thread on Canon section asking if I could still find new 5D Mk IIs to buy. Even if with lens and all it goes to $ 2,600 or a bit more.

BTW: no used equipment for me, only new.
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Amazon had the lowest price last month on the 5D MKII /24-105mm combo for $2,399 and now it's $200 more.
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Canon-21-1MP-Digital-Camera-24-105mm/product/B001G5ZTMM

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-21-1MP-...d=1359169076&sr=8-2&keywords=canon+5d+mark+ii
 
RyanB said:
A used AF100 with be great man.
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That's a video camera, and I can't buy that now, or I would go for the Sony FS100 eyes closed, much superior to all others in its price range, including the AF100.

This is due to what Brazilian customs allow passing through, and they do allow photographic cameras, not video cameras.

pulpfiction007 said:
The MK3 does improve on aliasing/moire AND codec options AND frame rate/resolution choices for video.
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Weren't those improvements retrofittable with software upgrade?
 
carlmart said:
I'm asking this question with a sort of interrogation mark in my head and with a bit of ingenuitty.

HDSLR cameras are becoming more and more expensive, and in my mind almost nulling what they were supposed to be, at least for me.

They got to a point, like with e.g.: Canon 5D Mark III, that they rival (and lose) with cameras like the Sony FS100 or the uncoming Blackamagic camera.

So I wonder, I am genuinely asking this: what are the most affordable high quality HDSLR cameras money can buy.

How do they compare in image quality, using the same lens, with Canon's 5D Mk II or Mk III, if those are the ones to look up to?

For instance and just as an example, I just saw a Sony Nex-7 camera with 18-55 zoom selling for $ 1,250 at Amazon. Of course, this is not a reflex camera, so you will depend on screen quality.

Bottom line: is there anything worth trying for around $1,500 with 24-105 zoom at least?
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Why not take it one step at a time?

USED 5DMk2

USED nikon lenses. And primes at that, would be my pref. KEH is a GOOD source for lenses. And an adapter will suffice. You could get the Used 5Dmk2 AND TWO PRO LEVEL used NIKKORS FOR $2K provided you find the 5dMk2 for $1500 er so.

EDIT: I see you're located in Rio. So Find out what lenses you'd like and keep an eye on pawn shops too. All the Nikkor dating to about 1967 will fit the same adapter for the 5dMk2.
 
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tom_wise said:
Why not take it one step at a time?

USED 5DMk2

USED nikon lenses. And primes at that, would be my pref. KEH is a GOOD source for lenses. And an adapter will suffice. You could get the Used 5Dmk2 AND TWO PRO LEVEL used NIKKORS FOR $2K provided you find the 5dMk2 for $1500 er so.

EDIT: I see you're located in Rio. So Find out what lenses you'd like and keep an eye on pawn shops too. All the Nikkor dating to about 1967 will fit the same adapter for the 5dMk2.
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Sorry, no used electronic equipment for me. Only new.

I might go for used lenses, but only if I could handle them first. Used lenses have to be tried on the camera you are going to use them with.

So an used 5D Mk II is not an option.

The pawn shopping in Rio is very poor and very expensive.
 
With that sort of budget I'd go for a T3i and a couple of lenses like a 50mm f/1.4 and a Tokina 11-16 f/2.8

Another spectacular option is the Panasonic GH2 with a slew of vintage manual lenses.

The idea of spending all your budget on a body is tough to swallow when you have such great options in many of the other cams out there. In spite of the recent resolution craze, the 7D, 60D, T2i and T3i all create incredible moving images. Especially with the help of Magic Lantern. A GH2 is an incredible camera with the hack as well. It has outstanding resolution and can be found with a kit lens for $500 occationally.

Having good lenses and support gear is much more important to the final product than the body if you ask me.

Cheers,
Pete
 
Pete,

I do ask you! ;)

As my info on what's good and what's not in these cameras is limited, I'm trying to learn a little from those that did use them.

For lenses a good short zoom would have to do for now, 18-100 or something, as I would be using this camera for a doc I am now shooting, where my main camera is a Sony Z1. Later on I would go for some better primes.

Now this is being very helpful, as affordable models like the T3i entered the picture. I have just made a side by side specs comparison between the T3i and the 7D, and found a few interesting things. From what I saw, and correct me if I am wrong, the main thing the T3i lacks is an HDMI output, which is important for quality monitoring. The model that seems to correct this is the 60D.

All three models seem to share the same CMOS 22.3 x 14.9mm sensor, which is a good thing. I wish that sensor was larger, as that certainly affects image quality.

I haven't yet gone into GH2 territory, but I already read good things about it. A comparison with these Canons will follow.

This is good. Please keep these invaluable comments coming.

If someone already used any of these cameras for quality video, please do comment about it.
 
Two things about the GH2 and also GH3. The sensor is even smaller than that on mentioned above Canons.

But more important than that, it can't shoot in PAL (25 or 50 fps), so it wouldn't suit my present project. A real pity.
 
carlmart said:
Two things about the GH2 and also GH3. The sensor is even smaller than that on mentioned above Canons. But more important than that, it can't shoot in PAL (25 or 50 fps), so it wouldn't suit my present project. A real pity.
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Both the GH2 and GH3 cameras can shoot at the 25 fps PAL frame rate. ( The GH2 needs the latest firmware for this )

The GH3 can also shoot at the 50 fps PAL frame rate.


...In case you are curious here are five Indie feature films shot with the GH2, one was shown at TIFF last Fall, and one has been accepted into the 2013 Sundance Festival.

Musgo Trailer

Mickey & Laura Trailer

Splitting Bethany Trailer

Upstream Color Trailer

Picture Day Trailer
 
The next question can raise hot discussions, but I need to do it.

What about the rolling-shutter issues associated with all dslr cameras when used for video?

A friend of mine tried to shoot a video with puppets (not animation) and he had lots of problems, ending up using his HD camera instead.

The HDSLR (Canon 5D MK II) camera owner agreed on the problem, and he told him that he also had problems when shooting a travelling, going backwards, with strobo effects. Another friend of mine told me that you have to be very careful when panning, and he had just shot a short with an HDSLR, but most shots were static.

All these comments are from experienced people, both with film and video.
 
carlmart said:
What about the rolling-shutter issues associated with all dslr cameras when used for video?
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Rolling-shutter isn't just a DSLR problem, but a problem for almost all CMOS based large sensor cameras. ( and some small sensor CMOS cameras )

The exceptions are the older CCD based cameras ( i.e. Sony F35 ) and the new Sony F55 global shutter CMOS camera.

Yes rolling-shutter is a limitation, so you need to know how to work with it, and around it if necessary.
 
Rolling-shutter isn't just a DSLR problem, but a problem for almost all CMOS based large sensor cameras.
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thats just a fact of life with nearly all (some are worse than others) current CMOS cameras. i just cant imagine why a company would design a video camera with a shutter that they KNOW turns lamp posts to licorice!

you see all these beautiful test shots people do. but the camera is usually locked off and there is even very little motion going on in the frame. i dont care how pretty that kind of image is. if things start to fall apart when the camera or the subject moves. its just a limited use device. at least for my uses...

this is why ive chosen not to invest significantly in any DSLR rig. i just rent DSLR set ups on an as-needed basis
 
wgzn said:
i just cant imagine why a company would design a video camera with a shutter that they KNOW turns lamp posts to licorice!
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...My favorite rolling-shutter effect are the shots of plucked guitar-strings that have a life of their own. It's like they've turned into little snakes that are dancing up and down the fret-board.
 
Well, now I'm surprised that these problems are there and people do not seem to talk about them.

There should be a section, or a sticky thread, where people do bring their "rolling shutter" woes and share with others on how to solve them.

The Sony FS100 does seem to solve them quite well, but unfortunately I can't go that path yet.
 
The GH series in my opinion are the best of the stills cam bunch for keeping that under control. Rarely saw rolling shutter effects on my GH1...you can make it happen...but its pretty well controlled compared to some of the others. Same with moire/aliasing- It's there on the GH cams....but not nearly as obvious as t2i, 5dMK2, etc. The MK3 is very low on moire/aliasing as well.
 
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