C100: Best way to make sure a subject is in focus?

tobyhoffman

tobyhoffman

Active member
What method do you find works best in finding focus on the C100? I find that using the magnify/peaking combination in camera works most of the time, but every now and then you get a shot in which the subject is out of focus. The only other thing I can think of is using the "Focus Peaking" feature on the Atomos Ninja to get focus instead.

This question relates to run n gun work in which you have to get critical focus in a matter of a few seconds.
 
I feel you. I don't have too much experience with the cam but the last shoot I did was run n gun, outdoors no less. At longer focal lengths it's easier to tell when you're off, but wider, peaking can show everything in focus and it really isn't. So also curious as to what others do.
 
Magnify + Peaking was so yesterday. Auto-focus is how we do it today. It's a lot quicker and often is more accurate.

At least for run n' gun. I still use magnify + peaking for slow paced sit down interview setups, and occasionally for run n gun b-roll, but not very often for run n gun since I have auto-focus.
 
Last edited:
Even C100 Mk1 autofocus? Feels like cheating. Back in the civil war the videographers didn't have autofocus, somehow they got by. They could get the shot with manual focus while amputating their own legs.
 
Yeah well since I bought my C100 mki in 2014 I don't quite have the AF upgraded version! Heard it only focuses objects in the center box of the frame anyway so don't know how good that would be..
Any other solutions?
 
Oh, boo, is that how it works? I'm looking into a MK1 and may get the upgrade later. So you have to point the center at your focus point, focus, then reframe for composition?
 
Josh Bass said:
Oh, boo, is that how it works? I'm looking into a MK1 and may get the upgrade later. So you have to point the center at your focus point, focus, then reframe for composition?
Click to expand...

Yes, but in reality, the method you describe works pretty well. It's not as bad as some make it out to be. The C300 MKII focus is much better, but the C100 MKI is usable. I shoot BTS and EPK for TV shows and movies, it's really no big deal. I always have tough lighting and focus situations and love DPAF.
 
Yep, put the crosshair on the face of your main subject, press the focus button and you are GTG. Before DPAF, I had a lot of OOF shots with the 5D MKIII and would sometimes go back to my small sensor P2 camera because I was sick of soft focus shots. Even on a 5"-6" screen, in broad daylight, it can be almost impossible to tell if you are in sharp focus.
 
puredrifting said:
Yep, put the crosshair on the face of your main subject, press the focus button and you are GTG. Before DPAF, I had a lot of OOF shots with the 5D MKIII and would sometimes go back to my small sensor P2 camera because I was sick of soft focus shots. Even on a 5"-6" screen, in broad daylight, it can be almost impossible to tell if you are in sharp focus.
Click to expand...

Yeah but the 5D I found like most canon DSLR's had that same OOF effect. We use Canon 60D's for a small media company I work for and they are a PITA to get faces fully in focus shooting anything below f4.
 
After 2 full days of shooting, I have found the Ninja 2 "Focus Peaking" to be a bit soft - it doesn't clearly outline what's in focus and the image on the screen is always overexposed/blurry too. I really don't know any one good method for focusing on the C100 run/gun!
 
My experience with any peaking on any cam is you have to ride it a little to see where it "sings" the most. It'll be visible through a range of focus points, but at a certain more specific point it will be at it's thickest/zingiest and that's where you want to be. Maybe you already knew that, if so, my bad. Maybe you can adjust C100 peaking to be less "generous"? The harder it is to see, unfortunately, the more accurate it probably is (only coming on when you truly are sharp).
 
curlyhairedjew said:
Yeah well since I bought my C100 mki in 2014 I don't quite have the AF upgraded version! Heard it only focuses objects in the center box of the frame anyway so don't know how good that would be..
Any other solutions?
Click to expand...
So send it in to Canon, pay $500, and they'll upgrade it to have auto-focus.

Other solutions. Magnify and peaking are useful tools; don't use them all the time. I generally find the LCD screen is good enough to judge focus from. Worked fine for me before I had auto-focus, or now-a-days when I'm using manual focus Nikon lenses. Not as quick, but I find it's sharp enough to judge focus from. Use a cheap sun hood if you're outside.

As Josh just said, play with peaking settings to get them more specific, and find what works best for you. And be sure to make it not white; I don't know why the camera ships with peaking set to white, when white is too difficult to see. It needs to be on red, blue, or yellow. I usually use red.


Josh Bass said:
Oh, boo, is that how it works? I'm looking into a MK1 and may get the upgrade later. So you have to point the center at your focus point, focus, then reframe for composition?
Click to expand...
Yeah, as puredrifting said, it's still better than manual focus. Takes a lot less time to focus and re-frame than it does to manually focus, and it's often more accurate.
 
Last edited:
curlyhairedjew said:
After 2 full days of shooting, I have found the Ninja 2 "Focus Peaking" to be a bit soft - it doesn't clearly outline what's in focus and the image on the screen is always overexposed/blurry too. I really don't know any one good method for focusing on the C100 run/gun!
Click to expand...

I can vouch for SmallHDs 'Focus Assist' mode. I'd call it "peaking that works". I'm not saying that you should change monitor though, but a SmallHD screen like an AC7 or the newer 701 series would be a great focus pulling assist tool. I used to have the DP6 with my C100 back then, and I've used an AC7 with my 1Dc.

Of course, if you're depending on external recording, the SmallHDs won't help much in that area.

I've always found peaking problematic and unhelpful. The fundamental problem, especially with wider lenses, is that peaking might just as likely get triggered by contrasty edges from larger objects further back in the frame, as by finer textures where you actually want to focus. I found this to be the case even if the C100 lets you configure peaking quite a bit.

Somehow the SmallHD 'Focus Assist' makes it apparent where you're focusing. I never had doubts there. The reason it works better, I think, is that while focusing, you clearly see your 'in focus' zone moving through the image. It also has a bit of fall off so you know exactly where peak focus is.

Again: not saying you should get one of those monitors (and I'm not related to them in any way of course). See the above more along the lines of "a setup that actually works".
 
The screen on the Ninja 2 is substandard to the Blade screen, Small DP, etc. I agree with Eric, you should usually be able to tell you are in focus from the C100's monitor with peaking but you may need a Hoodman for it if you are outside. DPAF would make this a non-issue for you, I would upgrade your camera if you can.
 
I would never personally use auto-focus. Peaking, etc. are guides that help you make decisions. AF is a computer making your decision. The selections and execution of focus reflects our personalities as operators. Just my 2cents...
 
Last edited:
scorsesefan said:
AF is a computer making your decision.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this at all. I think it's of the utmost importance—especially if you're using AF to assist your focusing—that you command where the camera is focusing.

There are Auto Focus modes on entry level cameras where the camera indeed seems to focus at its own discretion. But even in this situation, you as a shooter are always in control. When you see that it doesn't work, you shut it off.

With DPAF, at least in the C300 mkII marketing, Canon initially went a bit out of its way to call it Assisted Focus, instead of Auto Focus—implying that the control/responsibility is with the shooter. And even with these more sophisticated systems it won't always work. But I think the general consensus is that DPAF is a lot more useful and reliable than earlier systems. Yet, just because you put it in 'face detect' it's not the cameras fault if it loses focus. You need to test the system's limitations and be aware when it works and when it doesn't.

That said, I agree that there are a number of "shooting styles" that don't warrant constant pinpoint focus. And the images might become even more dynamic for it. But that is another topic. I think discussing focus assist tools assumes the decision has been made that something needs to be in focus.
 
scorsesefan said:
I would never personally use auto-focus. Peaking, etc. are guides that help you make decisions. AF is a computer making your decision. The selections and execution of focus reflects our personalities as operators. Just my 2cents...
Click to expand...
Maybe in a narrative world where you're using cine lenses and the goal isn't always to have things in focus, as focus going soft, or transitioning precisely at the speed the AC (with a wireless follow focus) wants, is of artistic importance. But that's not what we're talking about.

We're talking about run n gun b-roll. 99% of shots you're filming in those situations, you have a particular something you want to have perfectly in-focus. Most of the time, it's someone's eyes. If a computer can help you to do it faster and better than you doing it 100% manually, and your attitude is still, "I won't let computer's do my work," then you're letting arrogance get in the way of doing a better job.

In reality it's probably not so much arrogance as ignorance. I doubt you have much or any experience with the C-series auto-focus in a run n gun environment. I too was skeptical before I started using it. When I first bought my second C100 Mark I I was considering saving $500 and not getting the version with the auto-focus, but after using a co-worker's for a few minutes at a wedding, I was convinced, and later spent an extra $10k on the C300 Mark II in large part because of the auto-focus features, because let's face it, having shots in focus is extremely important. Experience with auto-focus in a run n gun environment tends to quickly break skepticism of it, I find.

I'd much rather have a shot that needs to be in focus, be in focus, than have it "reflect my personality" while out of focus. No producer on a reality TV show is going to accept "reflecting my personality" as an excuse for out of focus shots.

As Jesus would say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." To parallel, "Let he who has never missed focus on a shot condemn auto-focus."
 
Last edited:
No, Eric, you're right. I haven't used AF in the c100. I was speaking of AF in general. So, maybe it is ignorance... So, my questions is how exactly does DAF work to determine what object/facial feature is in focus?... Oh, and BTW I've F'd up focus on many occasions, as we all have, so it's not a "holier than thou" situation.
 
Last edited:
Eric Coughlin said:
So send it in to Canon, pay $500, and they'll upgrade it to have auto-focus.

As Josh just said, play with peaking settings to get them more specific, and find what works best for you. And be sure to make it not white; I don't know why the camera ships with peaking set to white, when white is too difficult to see. It needs to be on red, blue, or yellow. I usually use red.
Click to expand...


I completely agree with "upgrade to autofocus" and "play with peaking settings..." The DPAF on my Mark I gets a lot of use. When hand-held or panning, it is quite easy to hide that you are centering the point of grab focus, disengage the autofocus, and have that focus locked as you reframe until either you or your subject move again.

But not all docs are "docs" and don't rule white out entirely - just gotta play with it. I love how Joanna was shot (https://vimeo.com/107024169) and have been playing with that style myself in some personal - not paid - work. C-Log's lower contrast can leave peaking with fewer edges to grab. On my DP4 I've been having good success with white since it only adds a bit of crispness, aiding my view while relying more on what I see on the screen overall. As was said elsewhere, I ride it too.

This works for a particular approach/intention. When I'm not in C-Log or when I'm using the on-camera LCD, red all the way. When I'm getting paid, working DPAF 80+% of the time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top