Best way/program to level audio

G

gundar

Well-known member
I am so very tired of youtube clips and shorts that have extreme differences in audio. Even the big budgets do it, the dialogue is faint but the gunshots blow your ears out...

What is the best method/program to make audio as enjoyable as possible for your viewers?

Are there some golden rules as far as db's go?

Any programs that offer a quick solution?
 
There's a lot to cover in your questions and many variables. Depending on the budget of the film, there maybe many mixes for each show, i.e. theatrical mix, home theater mix, IMAX mix, web mix, airline mix and so on..

There are a few threads in this forum and on other major audio forums regarding mix levels, etc. that are really worth checking out and reading.

Can you be more specific in what you're watching? And in what environment/setting? Where are you watching big budgets? In a theater? In a living room? Listening to the BluRay? DVD?

I think web-based mixes tend to be all over the place when it comes to comparing loudness between different content. I feel the same way you do. I also feel the same way about feature films beings played on cable networks, where the commercials are literally 10x louder than the movie - so you constantly have to "ride" the volume buttons on the remote.

Theatrical mixers mix by ear, and according to some industry pros, no theater plays the theatrical mix at "level" aka Dolby 7. It is turned down a few dB. Smaller film festivals also turn down the volume in their theaters. I've experienced this myself with my own mix for a film festival being played at a theater in San Francisco. It was so low that the director scheduled a listening session with me after just to see where the levels were really were in a real mix stage. The director couldn't believe it herself!
 
All you can do is MIX on decent speakers. You have no control over how people are listening to your film. Maybe a little with a theatrical release but zero for web stuff.

Probably most of what you don't like was mixed by folks on their multimedia game speakers and the normalized till it was just below clipping. They grew up with iPods and video games and they LOVE explosions, who cares about dialog anyway?

This unfortunately also shows up in big budget films from time to time.

Listen to the balance of a film and you can learn a lot about a director.

The rest may well be what you were listening on. Were you streaming to a real system? Or laptop speakers? of headphones? All very different worlds.
 
Noiz and Ryan,

Thanks for the prompt responses. I am glad to see the craze in fluctuation isn't bothering me alone.

I thought that I had overheard or read a blurb somewhere about trying to make sure all audio is around the xx.db mark... Maybe that was just someones preference, I can't recall.

My outlet is for normal dialogue with some external noise mostly viewed on the web/dvd but also on commercials.

Thanks again for all the help.
 
gundar said:
My outlet is for normal dialogue with some external noise mostly viewed on the web/dvd but also on commercials.

Thanks again for all the help.
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For commercials there are on-going initiatives to limit the volume so it's not hotter than program levels. A google of "dial-norm" will term up a wealth of information.
 
gundar said:
Noiz and Ryan,

Thanks for the prompt responses. I am glad to see the craze in fluctuation isn't bothering me alone.

I thought that I had overheard or read a blurb somewhere about trying to make sure all audio is around the xx.db mark... Maybe that was just someones preference, I can't recall.

My outlet is for normal dialogue with some external noise mostly viewed on the web/dvd but also on commercials.

Thanks again for all the help.
Click to expand...

It might be your setup.

I recall back in the early days of DVD, that some movies were difficult to hear the dialog to- movies that I remember being able to hear clearly in the theater. I recall renting one of the Jurassic Park installments, and finding the dialog was almost entirely inaudible. Turns out, my DVD player was decoding the audio improperly. The disc was feeding it Dolby 5.1 surround encoded audio, but the player was improperly sending it to 2 speakers. It got even more complicated when I actually HAD a dolby surround system on my desktop, the disc had a dolby surround option in the menu, but the player software did not know what to do with it.

Its gotten better these days, most software and players know how to handle this stuff well enough to adapt to the situation. But every now and then, I find someone struggling with a mismatched setup. Either the source and/or hardware are not communicating signals as intended by the author, and that may very well be what you are describing. I would turn up the volume so I could hear the dialog, and then there would be ear piercing sound effects.
 
gundar said:
I thought that I had overheard or read a blurb somewhere about trying to make sure all audio is around the xx.db mark... Maybe that was just someones preference, I can't recall.
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There are some standards out there, but they pretty much apply only to broadcast and theatrical release. See Steve's recommended search of "dial-norm", but suffice it to say that there are no set standards for DVD or Internet. Commercial DVDs vary, but not nearly as much as the 'Net. Audio from web vids, as you've experienced, are all over the place.

If the material is something other than dramatic/narrative, I'll usually take it into audio post as if it's for broadcast. If it's narrative, I'll mix as if it's for theatrical release. When I'm done, I'll send the mix through a little mastering for the Interwebs, which means using compression and a limiter/maximizer to reduce the dynamic range a little and give the mix a brick-wall peak of -3dB. I've found this to give me the best results on the 'Net across a broad range of speakers (from decent systems to cheap/weak laptop built-ins).
 
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Alex,

Thanks. Dial norm seems to be the closest to what I am looking for.

Thanks for the tip on hardware. I will be sure to switch it up in post to see how it sounds on many fronts.
 
The thing is that Dial Norm is a number that comes from looking at your full mix. It's an after the fact thing. And (though the cable networks don't use it this way) it is supposed to be something you do after you mix and the broadcaster gets to deal with it knowing what your Dial norm level is. The networks have turned that on it's ear and have been making mixers hit certain Dial Norm levels, but that is not how it was designed to work.

But you can't mix by looking at the Dial Norm because it needs the whole track to come up with the number. It's based on an average of the entire program, it's not a level meter.

In theory when properly implemented it should make the dialog audible, but the explosions can still take your head off since the number, in theory, is based only on the dialog levels.
 
Your mix is as big a skill as shooting, writing, scoring - but if you have to go one-man-band, I'd suggest:

Get the best reference monitors you can afford - the home recording craze means there's far more semi-pro audio gear than video gear, there's some excellent stuff marketed to the home/musician level - stuff like KRK Rockits, the Event line, Mackie. Look for a self-powered pair; if your room is small or your desk is right up against a wall, avoid anything with rear-firing bass ports. You can get in the door for under $500 if you shop around...

If you do a lot of bass-heavy stuff, sci-fi effects, explosions... you may want to avoid anything with woofers under 8"... I'd really say try for a pair of 8's regardless.

There's a world of info on where to place monitors for optimal listening (start with the instructions)... and if you want to hear a beautiful (and pretty prominent) difference, look into killing early reflections at your mixing area. I started with 2x2 sound-deadening panels on my left and right walls, and the detail and clarity took a huge leap. (Google "Ethan Winer Forum" for tons of DIY room treatment ideas). Just sheets of foam won't cut it, but a couple panels are cheap to buy and easy to make yourself.

Have a way to switch between reference monitors and computer speakers for web mixing.

Exporting everything to a dedicated audio software (ProTools, Logic, etc) can give you far more editing and treating options than your NLE's mixer (I use FCP and it just sucks compared to ProTools). A good compressor and EQ (especially those that emulate vintage gear properly) are a good start - the big push for "analog warmth" in digital and home recording means there's stuff out there that works great on dialogue... I find just putting the Analog Channel plugin on dialogue gives you a luscious "cinema" sparkle to voices.
 
gundar said:
What is the best method/program to make audio as enjoyable as possible for your viewers?
Click to expand...

Not an audio expert, but the three main areas where I see amateur audio post production fall down are:

- Audio EQ
- Audio Noise Reduction
- Audio Compression

If you are trying to improve your own audio production, I would make sure you are at least competent with these three areas.
 
gundar said:
Are there some golden rules as far as db's go?
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I'd say, when recording you should "peak" at -12dB (or -6dB if you need the signal to be more "hot") and when mixing, be sure it never reach (as Alex said) -3dB. To play safe, -6dB for the final mix isn't a bad thing.
For your mix, I would mix both dialogs and gun shots with a difference of -6dB: so you hear when they speak and you don't blow the speakers when there's action. But as many other said, it would be decided by ears mostly.
Alex H. said:
If the material is something other than dramatic/narrative, I'll usually take it into audio post as if it's for broadcast. If it's narrative, I'll mix as if it's for theatrical release. When I'm done, I'll send the mix through a little mastering for the Interwebs, which means using compression and a limiter/maximizer to reduce the dynamic range a little and give the mix a brick-wall peak of -3dB.
Click to expand...

Good advice here. I'm taking notes!
 
drapeama said:
How much the L2 costs?
And that's a nice idea to put one on the master bus. Never thought about it, but you can't go wrong doing such! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Not too sure but the Massey plug is very cheap and it sounds great. It can really take a beating.
 
Some good advice here - the fact is that so much more audio is being mixed and produced in home studios than ever before, so access to high quality, but lowish cost kit has never been better. Reading the topic people do seem to be hung up on audio level, as if it's some magic/mysterious solution to producing good sound. With digital dynamic range, it's perhaps less important now, and it's dynamic range, not absolute level that people work to. You need to get the imaginary viewer in your head when you mix. In my sound studio there is silence - and even low sounds can appear quite loud. So when I mix, I can include very subtle stuff that just supports the rest, yet when it's played on systems in somebodies kitchen, on a cheap player with no bass response - it still has to work - so CD mixes are a problem - you have to make them sound good, or at least as good as you can, on a range of kit in different conditions. Video is not much different. Do you have a full range system on the replay end - I'm thinking systems with decent amounts of sub-bass capability. A gunshot or cannon fire can sound like a whip crack without. Impulse sounds will cut through - so don't need to be stretching the dynamic range - especially if the replay system may well have the volume turned up for effect already. The gunshot can be painful!

In my edit suite, the background noise is much higher - fan noise from the machines - so quiet content seems to vanish into the noise floor. For the usual stuff, I can adjust for this and it's fine - but when I need precise audio, I mix the audio on Cubase in the sound studio, with the video being played in a window by cubase. I can do careful balancing and eq there, and then lay the finished audio track back afterwards. Most of my work is on DVD, and I've over the years established volume levels for different types of products so I know the real limits typical DVD/TV combinations can manage. For music that has been compressed so it's continually loud, then I adjust the overall level by normalisation to make it unnecessary to turn down a DVD when switched to from normal TV. For normal video - then I'm going to put a gentle limiter on the top level, and then run dialogue lower so I have the headroom for the door slams, shouts and other punchy stuff. My aim is to make the end user not have to use the remote volume to watch my products. Now we're digital and not analogue - the overall level can go up and down at the final stages and have little impact on the quality - something we couldn't do with analogue without adding noise. I never work to numbers, I work to my ear.
 
ryanjf said:
Here are some popular brick-wall limiters. You really can't go wrong with any of these:

http://waves.com/content.aspx?id=211
http://www.masseyplugins.com/#plugins/l2007
http://www.mcdsp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=133&Itemid=50
Click to expand...

That Massey 2007 is simply awesome. Very simple yet an amazing little limiter - and it's basically free - the trial version doesn't save your settings, so you can test it out as much as you want, but paying for it is a bargain.

His compressor is great as well - very clear sounding, very "natural" - I use it on every voiceover track.

A real secret weapon on the Massey site is the tape-head distortion. Using it at the lowest settings really give you some analog punch. Not the most subtle thing for voices (I prefer something analog-emulating on the master and L2007 adds a hint of analog) but it can really bring some "phat" to sound effects and music tracks. And his 3-channel EQ can be pretty damn angelic as well - the controls are interactive, meaning when you boost the bass, it cuts some mid and high depending upon all three settings. Not a "total-control" EQ for fixing things, but a pretty magical one.
 
Quick question: How are the Compressor/Limiter and Wave Hammer plugins in Sony Vegas? I'm using these and I'm satisfied so far, but are they good enough?
 
The SCS Wave Hammer plug-in (comp/limiter & maximizer) works very nice.. providing it's used intelligently. Like most limiters/maximizers, if used to excess, it can turn even already good audio into an ugly mess, a common procedure with inexperienced users. 'If some is good, more is better'
 
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