Best tools for a Mac / PC interchangable workflow?

S

shawn.w

Active member
Hey Everyone,

My last post left off with some confusion on this question so i thought i would open it up to the broader area of what tools / software allow for a workflow to go between Mac and PC users. As i will be transcoding my footage I found the best options are the ones listed below. But if you know of any other way i can achieve a workflow that is great for both Mac and PC, please let me know.


So the only two options i know of right now are:

1. Cineform NeoScene or NeoHD:
it seems the thing that allows a cross platform workflow here is Cineform's "HD link" program, that can put the .avi files i would create (im on a PC) into a .mov wrapper. Not sure what this means for file size or if you want to unwrap it when you get it back to PC side?

Anyways im not sure if Neoscene, the cheeper option, allows for this, even though it does seem to come with HD link, i think the .mov file conversion is missing as i dont see it in the menu displayed 1/4 down this page:
http://techblog.cineform.com/?p=2062
So perhaps this means the best / only option for cineform is if you start w/ NeoHD?


2. Avid DNxHD codec:
I'm told I can download this for free and use it with Adobe media encoder, as i edit on PProCS4. Is this the correct download?
http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=263545

Does anyone i work with on a Mac also need to download the Mac version so they can read the files in their NLE and other programs? Other programs being emphasized as my friend will be doing green screen keying for me in Shake or Motion on his Mac, along with some other things.

also not sure why but here: http://www.avid.com/dnxhd/
they say:
"Quicktime HD Codec is downloadable free of charge for Mac OSX and Windows XP"
I'm on Vista 64bit. Yet on the download page it appears it supports vista, or is there something im missing?


3?. Just thought of this... Maybe buy cineform (for great customer support, upgrade ability, easy user interface) and install (not sure how this is done) the DNxHD codec for cineform to transcode to?

Let me know what you all think would be the best option.

Thanks everyone! Sorry to post so much on this but trying to figure out a cross platform workflow is giving me a headache.


- Shawn

http://www.avid.com/dnxhd/
 
Shawn,

There are a few pieces to the puzzle that you'll need to work effectively cross-platform. Ther first, is physical connectivity. If the PC and Mac are on the same network, this is solved. But if you will be using portable drives, or other media, you'll need a good way to solve that issue. I use a program called Macdrive to do this, and it's flawless. As well as relatively inexpensive. This will allow you to read Mac formatted hard drives.

The second piece of the puzzle is finding a container that can move back and forth. For me, the .mov container is supported well enough on the PC to make it my standard.

Lastly, you'll need a codec. I've used Cineform, but the encoder must be purchased for every machine you need to encode on. In your case, both the Mac and the PC users would have to purchase the software to encode. Cineform is a codec, so you can't use it to transcode to another codec like DNxHD. On the other hand, DNxHD writes to a .mov container, is free to read and to write, and is now a SMPTE standard (VC-3) so support is growing. You simply need to install the codec on both the Mac and the PC with the downloadable installer, and you're all set. Yes, the PC version works fine with Vista64, and Windows7.

Whenever I have to work cross-platform, I use the DNxHD workflow. It's highly effective, avoids the infamous Mac gamma shift problem, and it's free. Pretty hard to beat.
 
Thanks PerroneFord!

I also have macdrive and some 1tb externals so moving the files around shouldn't be a problem.

.mov container sounds good. Any programs you would recommend for achieving this? I just got PProCS4 and im told i could use Adobe Media Encoder for this, but im not sure if its the best or has an easy user interface so let me know if there is other options.


DNxHD seems like the clear winner. Do I just have to run the file you download from the link in my first post then the codec will show up as an option for whatever transcoder i choose? Or does the codec come with its own software?
 
Basically, you download the installer, and run that like any other software install. It does it's magic, and then the DNxHD codec shows up in any of your programs that let you encode video. It also installs the reader so that when you open a DNxHD encoded file in your NLE or Quicktime, it just does what it's supposed to do.

You can use ANY encoder you want to create DNxHD files. You can do it in your NLE, you can use something like Mpeg Streamclip to do it in batch mode, or anything else that encodes video. DnxHD only works in the .mov container. You cannot make a .avi file that has DNxHD coded video in it.

Go ahead and download the software, install it, and give it a whirl. Once you get it installed, post back here before you do you encode a video, and I'll walk you through the options. It's not confusing, but there are some tricks you should know.
 
Hey PerroneFord,

I have downloaded the installer from:
http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=263545

I will install it sometime this weekend.

What encoder do you recommend I use? I have PProCS4 if that has a good built in option, otherwise something that could batch transcode would be great. Would be willing to pay a bit if it would increase quality or convenience.

Let me know what those encoding tips are. Thanks so much for all the help!

PS. The files are AVCHD coming off my HMC150 and im thinking ill just be transcoding from the .mts files which i have renamed and organized on my own if that makes a difference.


- Shawn
 
I encode from my NLE, but you can use Encoder if you want. This is unnecessary in Vegas. It's built in.

If you want to do batch encoding, then like my last post says, Mpeg Streamclip is an excellent choice. Open a single file first in Mpeg Streamclip first to be sure it's going to work. It understands most file types.

DnxHD can encode at many different bit-rates. Everything from it's proxy bitrate of 36Mbps, to 220 Mbps. And it can encode many of the higher bitrates at 10 bits per channel. When you start to customize it (you have an option for what format the input is in. REC709 (most footage) or RGB. You need to understand what your files are so you can choose correctly. But if you are encoding files straight from your camera, they are most likely REC.709.

You also get to select your bitrate from a wide variety. BUT, there is something VERY important about this. These are just bitrates. They have descriptions next to them that are suggestions of what you might use it for. But those are merely suggestions. I'll offer an example:

Let's say you shot a 1920x1080/24p clip. If you go to encode that file in DNxHD at the highest quality possible, it will say 1920x1080 24p 175 Mbps. That doesn't mean you need to choose that. You can choose the 1920x1080 60i 220 Mbps. That will NOT change your footage to 60i during the encode. It will merely encode it at 220 Mbps. Ignore the words and just choose the bitrate you want.

Also, there is absolutely no need to encode at those super-high bitrates for footage recorded with our cameras. If you were scanning film, it would make sense. I use the 36 Mbps size all the time for footage coming from my EX1 and it's gorgeous. The exception to this is if I am going to be doing a lot of color grading. Then I choose a 10bit option. The 10bit ones are the ones that have an "x" after the number.

Also, you should download the PDF whitepaper. It will explain a lot about the codec, and has a handy chart you can print out.

http://www.avid.com/resources/whitepapers/DNxHD_WP3.pdf
 
i've been liking the DNxHD codec too.

but i still run into FAT32 or dvd file size issues when trying to deliver clips to a mac user by mail.

i don't think shipping harddrives across the country is really an option for me.

my latest attempt at a solution was to use WinRAR to store/span large video files across multiple dvd discs.

i'll find out if this works well or easily enough as soon as the client receives the discs and tries to extract the spanned volumes.

usually, i'm pushing pc-created files to a mac user and not the other way around, but i'm glad to know about Macdrive.
 
The FAT32 limitation is 4GB right? Im not really clear why this is the case but for some reason i remember formatting an external HD and seeing that as an option but i never read up on it.

I know on my Mac ive got files well over 4GB so what is the limit of FAT32 that affects large video files?

The HMC150 can only write 4GB files at a time when starts a new file i know that, does DNxHD handle this well if you just slide the clips together in the NLE or does it require additional software to merge them without problems?


Averan, what encoder and settings do you use on most of your footage?

thanks!


- Shawn
 
both macs and pcs have native file systems that allow them to write files > 4gb.

the problem is that the only file system they will BOTH read is FAT32 and has 4gb file size limits.

so if i want to transfer some files from a pc to a mac via an external hdd, i have to deal with this issue.

DNxHD does not have any limitations.
in fact, i tried to transcode to DNxHD on a FAT32 hdd and it wouldn't do it. it would not simply span/split the files when they exceeded the 4gb limit. however, the P2 transcoder would.

the reason the hmc150 splits files is because sd cards are FAT32, not because the camera is inherently setup that way.

to answer your question, i've never had any problems lining up split clips in my NLE. as long as the clips are named/numbered sequentially, its easy, and i've never had any dropped or garbled frames at the split junctions.

for transcoding prior to editing, i use either TMPGEnc Xpress with the CanopusHQ or DNxHD codec or i use the MainConcept DVCproHD transcoder which has been much faster and gives me smaller file sizes.

most people in here don't like the P2 format because it takes your 1920px and turns it to 1440px. technically, you lose some quality, but if you're delivering for SD or the web, its more than good enough.

with the DNxHD codec, i use the 1080_30p-36mbps, 8-bit setting.
 
loving the DNxHD-36 codec!

just realized i'm getting smaller file sizes and equal or better quality than the DVCproHD codec!

transcoded 7.8Gb of AVCHD to 16.1Gb of DNxHD and 40.3Gb of DVCproHD.
the avid codec rocks!

i get smaller files, without the loss of pixels down to 1440 horizontally and still get 4:2:2 color.

sweet.
 
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