Best looking format for AVCHD transcode

M

MichaelRizzo

Member
I've been shooting a pair of HMC150s for about a year now after making the switch to HD, and picking the HMC150 based in no small part on the great information available on this board.

Generally shooting business to business promotional material which I shoot and edit myself so I have full control over the workflow. I edit in Vegas so working with the native AVC files has been relatively painless.

However I'm currently bidding a project to shoot for a major manufacturing company, no editing or production just a hired camera and I realize AVCHD might not be the right format for delivering raw footage to a client.

So I'm looking for suggestions on the best way to transcode the AVCHD for delivery to a client,

-I don't mind large file sizes. Can't say how much video I'll have yet, but delivering on a hard drive bought just for this project would be no trouble.

-I wouldn't mind buying software just for this, depending on price range.

-I don't care if it takes a while to transcode if I can cue up all my files and set it and forget it overnight (or for a few days)

-I don't know what format the client would prefer it in or what format I would like to see it in, I've only worked with AVCHD for my own needs and have always been happy.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I want to get opinions before the technical discussion begins with the client so I know what are my options.
 
I would talk to the client about it, The good thing is a lot of people are set up to work with P2 footage and with the the panasonic transocoder you can deliver in a P2 format. I have done that several times and has worked out great for me.
 
That would be DVCProHD, correct?

Is the bundled software good? Will I lose any quality I could gain with another, perhaps slightly more expensive solution?

The way I see it I can then deliver in AVCHD, P2 and the more generic (gigantic) formats without breaking a sweat.`
 
MichaelRizzo said:
That would be DVCProHD, correct?

Is the bundled software good? Will I lose any quality I could gain with another, perhaps slightly more expensive solution?

The way I see it I can then deliver in AVCHD, P2 and the more generic (gigantic) formats without breaking a sweat.`
Click to expand...

You really should ask the client. P2 (DVCProHD) is something you can do yourself, but would require a lot more hard drive space (and probably a couple of portable drive... who supplies those?). If they're on a Mac and using a newer version of FCP, then they have to use Pro-Res, and it will be easier for them to just do it themselves from your master footage. I believe the same would be the case for Avid and it's DNxHD format. I'm using CS4 and Cineform, and personally it would just make my life easier if I were the editor if you just gave me the AVCHD footage and let me deal with it. So yeah, talk to the client and their editor to see what works best for them. Chances are you probably won't have to worry about converting it to anything.
 
Mike Harvey said:
You really should ask the client. P2 (DVCProHD) is something you can do yourself, but would require a lot more hard drive space (and probably a couple of portable drive... who supplies those?). If they're on a Mac and using a newer version of FCP, then they have to use Pro-Res, and it will be easier for them to just do it themselves from your master footage. I believe the same would be the case for Avid and it's DNxHD format. I'm using CS4 and Cineform, and personally it would just make my life easier if I were the editor if you just gave me the AVCHD footage and let me deal with it. So yeah, talk to the client and their editor to see what works best for them. Chances are you probably won't have to worry about converting it to anything.
Click to expand...

I agree, that's probably what will happen, but I like to be as prepared as possible to begin with.

I just got a sample rendered from their guy, looks like they're working in 1080/50i which was sent to me as an h264 .MOV so I would guess they're in FCP or adobe working in PAL. This makes sense as I know they're in the US, Mexico and Germany, apparantly they're aiming more towards Germany.

I figure best case I shoot it in 1080/24p and they can interlace that to 1080/48i then just set it to 50i in post, I used to shoot with PAL cameras to go back to 24p for that filmic look, doing the opposite shouldn't be a big deal.

But this tells me I can shoot it with my HMC150, give them the 1080/24p AVC masters or convert it if they wanted it converted.
 
MACBOOK PRO / HMC 150 / Premiere issues

MACBOOK PRO / HMC 150 / Premiere issues

HMC150 AVCHD Editing in Premiere CS4
I'm a 1st time poster, and am hoping the input I'm able to receive is able to help me move forward here.

I just recently acquired a new MACBOOK PRO w/ the following specs:

Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
OSX 10.6.2 Snow Leopard
Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
L2 Cache: 6 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz

Graphics: (looks like there are two cards?):

NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT (vRAM 512) & NVIDIA GeForce 9400M (vRAM 256)

My main purpose in upgrading was to be able to do NLE in the field, but as I'm learning, that may not be the case.

Though I've been using FCP for years on a MUCH slower G4 system, I've now purchased the CS4 Premium Production Package, and am attempting to familiarize myself with Premiere Pro.

I shot an hour of test footage with a PANASONIC HMC150, and loaded the card's files into a desktop folder. I've been able to view the clips in the media manager, and drop them into a timeline, but EVERYTHING IS SO SLOW!!!--even 1 at a time.

I can preview the files with relative ease, but when I start attempting any in/out points, and especially when I try to drag them into my timeline, I get the beachball from hell. And then there's the rendering time, just to normalize (uncompress I assume) the clip. 6 mins of footage the other night took 10 HOURS!!! ...and then Premiere crashed! Nice.

Everything gone.

It crashes and hangs up all the time. For all intensive purposes, it's useless right now.

Soooo...I understand that the monstrous amount of compression needed for AVCHD presents quite a strain on all-but-the most powerful systems. That being said, my MBP is no snail.

Please offer some advice on what I need to do to MAC-simize my system here. Is my graphic card just not up to snuff? Are their settings w/in the MAC or w/in Premiere that could help me out? Also, I read about people converting AVCHD footage to a more-manageable filetype, and still being able to convert it at full quality.

Please...I'm really hoping that my new $2,300 system is not too weak for AVCHD.

I'm about to test some older SD footage to see if Premiere remains unstable, but REALLY look forward to any help you all might be able to offer.

Thanks, in advance!
 
openalias said:
HMC150 AVCHD Editing in Premiere CS4
I'm a 1st time poster, and am hoping the input I'm able to receive is able to help me move forward here.

I just recently acquired a new MACBOOK PRO w/ the following specs:

Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
OSX 10.6.2 Snow Leopard
Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
L2 Cache: 6 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz

Graphics: (looks like there are two cards?):

NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT (vRAM 512) & NVIDIA GeForce 9400M (vRAM 256)

My main purpose in upgrading was to be able to do NLE in the field, but as I'm learning, that may not be the case.

Though I've been using FCP for years on a MUCH slower G4 system, I've now purchased the CS4 Premium Production Package, and am attempting to familiarize myself with Premiere Pro.

I shot an hour of test footage with a PANASONIC HMC150, and loaded the card's files into a desktop folder. I've been able to view the clips in the media manager, and drop them into a timeline, but EVERYTHING IS SO SLOW!!!--even 1 at a time.

I can preview the files with relative ease, but when I start attempting any in/out points, and especially when I try to drag them into my timeline, I get the beachball from hell. And then there's the rendering time, just to normalize (uncompress I assume) the clip. 6 mins of footage the other night took 10 HOURS!!! ...and then Premiere crashed! Nice.

Everything gone.

It crashes and hangs up all the time. For all intensive purposes, it's useless right now.

Soooo...I understand that the monstrous amount of compression needed for AVCHD presents quite a strain on all-but-the most powerful systems. That being said, my MBP is no snail.

Please offer some advice on what I need to do to MAC-simize my system here. Is my graphic card just not up to snuff? Are their settings w/in the MAC or w/in Premiere that could help me out? Also, I read about people converting AVCHD footage to a more-manageable filetype, and still being able to convert it at full quality.

Please...I'm really hoping that my new $2,300 system is not too weak for AVCHD.

I'm about to test some older SD footage to see if Premiere remains unstable, but REALLY look forward to any help you all might be able to offer.

Thanks, in advance!
Click to expand...

You simply aint got enough CPU grunt. I edit native AVC footage on a PC with 2.6ghz quadcore CPU and use Vegas 9,, absolutlly no stress. My system cost me $600 tops to build.

You won't get any kind of decent performance with your current system. My old machine was a Core 2 when I got my HMC and went thru the sam problems, evryhting just too sooo long,, it was a slugbox. You need a quadcore. Or otherwise you'll need to convert all the files to Canopus HQ or another similar codec.
 
shaun1970 said:
You simply aint got enough CPU grunt. I edit native AVC footage on a PC with 2.6ghz quadcore CPU and use Vegas 9,, absolutlly no stress. My system cost me $600 tops to build.

You won't get any kind of decent performance with your current system. My old machine was a Core 2 when I got my HMC and went thru the sam problems, evryhting just too sooo long,, it was a slugbox. You need a quadcore. Or otherwise you'll need to convert all the files to Canopus HQ or another similar codec.
Click to expand...

Actually not true with Neo 2.5 and the soon to be released Edius 5.5 (free update to 5.X users). Neo 2.5 edits the native files like gravy on my i5 laptop which is just a dual core with only 4GB of ram and no dedicated gfx card.
Neo 2.5 edits it back in full rez with full rez (non draft or reduced quality) playback.
 
BTW.... This was just posted over at the GV forum for Neo 2:

"Well, I bought Neo booster today anyway. It does more than I'll ever need it to do. I am embarassed that I suffered through trying to use Sony Vegas 9.0. Neo Rocks! "

So, if you think it's good using Vegas 9, try Neo 2.5...
 
I was giving Neo a thought as I used to edit DV with Edius 4.5 but its was absolute rubbish with AVCHD, I believe version 5 is ok. Now this Neo thing is happening as it is in many ways the same as Edius it might be work a look.
 
shaun1970 said:
I was giving Neo a thought as I used to edit DV with Edius 4.5 but its was absolute rubbish with AVCHD, I believe version 5 is ok. Now this Neo thing is happening as it is in many ways the same as Edius it might be work a look.
Click to expand...


Version 5 was ok... 5.5 will be the same with AVCHD as Neo 2.5 so it'll also be very smooth.

If you were familiar with 4.5 and DV then you'd be at home with AVCHD on Neo 2.5 and Edius 5.5 as they edit AVCHD just like they did DV back on 4.5! It's that smooth.

Neo is missing several things like 3D PIP, Multicam, the pro codecs and other things that are included in Edius 5. You can still do multicam the old fashioned way, but if you do a lot of multicam shoots then Edius 5.5 would be best. Especially for AVCHD.
 
Edius still not supporting Win7, which is much better than Vista. May consider moving from FCP to it when that happens. Working real time in AVCHD would be a plus, IMHO. Saving hours of transcoding would be worth making a switch. I started in Sony V.V. but moved to FCP. Costly...in hardware and transcoding...

And to the Mac question, would a Matrox box be a solution coming in via HDMI? (I agree that the Macbook is probably underpowered, I use a MacPro dual quad core w/10GB RAM). If you are set on editing in the field, then I would reconsider your Mac decision, even though I like the Mac in general. However, there may be some tricks to doing what you want, such as not going directly to Prores HQ first, maybe trying out some of the tricks I've read using Prores Proxy (search on FCP forums).

or this...from another HMC Workflow thread...
If you're using a macbook pro you may want to edit in Pro Res Proxy, then re-capture in regular Pro Res 422 when the edit is done:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=191662

Saves space and boosts edit speed.
Click to expand...

If I needed to travel and edit, I'd likely buy a Windows machine, and check out either Sony or Edius as mentioned above. If you need to stay Mac, maybe you could edit in the field and save the AVCHD to be imported into FCP when you get home?

 
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