Cinema lens or Still lens for adapters?

jordan Bergren

jordan Bergren

Member
Hey guys,

So here's my question(s). What's the compare and contrast of cheaper still film lenses vs. the actual high dollar Cinema film lenses? What makes the Cinema lenses so much better? And last, butt not least. Will I be happy with an inexpensive 35 mm still lens or is it worth it to save?

Thanks,
Jordan Bergren
 
One thing that I have learned is that when racking back and forth with still camera lenses the image breaths. When racking the image seems to slightly zoom in or out. Very slight, but noticeable. Cinema lenses are designed in many cases to reduce or eliminate this effect. Keep in mind that still camera lenses are meant for shooting still images, so photographers are not effected by the breathing between racks.

Also from what I've read cinema lens use a more precise method for measuring the amount of light coming through the aperture called "T" stops instead of the commonly known "F" stop associated with still camera lenses.
 
And another thing with zoom lense is that with cinema lense you can zoom in and out without losing focus, unlike a still lense.
 
So with the Cinema zoom lens Is a pull focus still needed or does it have an automatic focus? Isn't that the only way it could hold focus while zooming?
 
Cinema lense is built with back focus in mind. So if you zoom in all the way, focus and then zoom out, it's in focus through that entire zoom range.
 
Jade,

Ahhhh, I see. So I assume that the back focus works vice versa as well and stays in focus when zooming in, correct?

Also, do you lose any image quality with the still lens compared to the cinema lens?
 
Cinema lenses also lets you be more precise in focusing when pulling focus because the turning ratio is much greater on it's focus ring vs still lenses.
 
although the breathe a fair bit the Nikon Zeiss lenses have a lot of travel for focus like cinemas lenses.

The biggest difference of course is the price. Money no object I will be shooting with PL mount all the time. I am getting a PL mount for my extreme so I can in future hire them for big shoots. Everyday stuff my Nikons do the trick.
 
Philip,

Thank you. Although, a Cinema Lens would, of course, ideally be the best way to go, money is a factor. So i have decided to try and find a good combination of a wide angle lens and a telephoto lens for that seems like it should cover a large portion of my shots.
I also would like to know, if a lens has a focal length of 35 mm but is a 78 mm long lens, is that considered a telephoto lens or not because of the 35mm focal length?

Thanks for the advice and Merry Christmas!
Jordan
 
Of course. That's why all I own are Nikon lenses.

28mm, 50mm, 85mm are the three most important lenses to go for. Make sure the 50 and 85 are all f1.4. The 28mm as fast as possible. Ignore the physical length of lenses. That is not relevant.

Merry Christmas!
 
the difference between cinema lenses and still lenses....

most cinema lenses have .8 pitch gears on their focus and aperture rings - for use with a follow focus
on cinema lenses the aperture rings are smooth and don't click into place like still lenses - useful if you need to change the aperture mid shot. but with adapters you can do that on camera...
cinema lenses project a smaller image... so with an adapter, you have to zoom in more.. making a 28mm cinema lens the equivalent to a 35mm still lens.
cinema lenses have a 80mm front ring so that they're compatable with matt boxes
the focus throw on cinema lenses is much wider so they're easier to focus with in some circumstances
the focus rings on cinema lenses turn the opposite way to some (not all) still lenses
cinema lenses are built to last and are made out of metal. most NEW still lenses are plastic
some cinema lenses are marked with Tstops instead of Fstops
still lenses tend to breathe more than cinema lenses but it really depends on each lens.
sharpness, vignetting, contrast and flaring are all relative to each lens
cinema lenses come in sets, so they're all generally the same Fstop or Tstop and they're colour matched.

you might like to know that they used rehoused nikons for "The Bourne Ultimatum" and a lot of cinema lenses are rehoused still lenses. RED lenses are purported to be rehoused Sigma's

generally the most "cinema like" still lenses that adapter users go for are Nikon AI and AI-s. Zeiss ZF lenses are very similar to these but they cost more.
you'll have a hard time finding some Nikon AI lenses brand new as most of them were made in the 70's. this is what makes the Zeiss ones so attractive. But you can pick up a really nice set of nikons second hand for relatively cheap.
 
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JenningsP,
Would the AI's that are so hard to find, be the E series lenses? Or are they just Nikon AI's Lenses?

Thank you for all of that information! If you don't mind I have a few questions to ask about some of your comparisons.

Thanks,
Jordan
 
the "E series" are generally the cheaper consumer models.

AI lenses are not hard to find (just harder then AIS). you can find them at most second hand dealers. i don't think you can buy them brand new any more.

AIS lenses are more common. they're the later model of the AI. they're almost identical in every way except their focus throw is a bit shorter. you can still buy the 35mm F1.4 AIS and the 50mm F1.4 AIS brand spanking new from bandhphoto.com/
though you can't buy the 85mm F1.4 AIS... :( maybe you can find it somewhere else, i'm not sure.

as for your questions, ask away!
 
Jennings,

Well, this is one small question of many others butt, are their still adapters or ways of attaching matte boxes to still lenses?
Also, what do you mean Cinema Lenses come in sets? Do you mean you pay for a few cinema lenses in one package?

Thank you for the help,
Jordan Bergren
 
hey phillip i have a realy nice 85mm nikon 2.0,and it seems realy sharp,so my question is how much different is the 85 1.4 vs. the 85 2.0 in terms of sharpness and overall image quality?thanks.
 
The latest and greatest Nikon zooms (70-200 2.8, 17-35 2.8) maintain their focus when you zoom in and are as sharp as any cine lense. But the focus draw is tight.

I agree with Phil on the Nikons. Also, I feel an adaptor also lessens the difference in sharpness.

The ZF's are amazingly sharp. The new Voightlander 58mm 1.4 is worth looking into. It has a much longer focus draw than you Nikons and is all metal. Looks cool too.

A few other recommendations: Nikon 135 2.0 is an amazingly sharp lens. Also the focus draw is almost as fat as a cine lens (use it with Zacuto focus rings - others won't fit.) Nikon 105 2.0 is also quite incredible. If I had to choose three: 24mm 2.0, 50mm 1.4 and 105 2.0. For doc work, I'd go with 28 1.4, 50 1.4 and 85 1.4. That extra stop will save your butt in available light.

But note, at wide open still lenses don't perform that well. Voightlander's can. The fast Nikons tend to "sharpen" up after 2.0 and really show their muscle past 2.8 to 5.6. Your better PL mount lenses (Master Primes, Super Speeds, and Cookes) all perform quite well wide open.
 
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reem12 said:
hey phillip i have a realy nice 85mm nikon 2.0,and it seems realy sharp,so my question is how much different is the 85 1.4 vs. the 85 2.0 in terms of sharpness and overall image quality?thanks.
Click to expand...

Check out Evin Grants review on the 85mm 1.4 in Reduser. Sheds some light on why it's special.
 
jade8472 said:
And another thing with zoom lense is that with cinema lense you can zoom in and out without losing focus, unlike a still lense.
Click to expand...

Call me crazy, but thats just not the case. If you have issues with this using still lenses, your back focus is set wrong.

If you want a slow rack focus, you need to make the still lenses focus ring larger, which in turn slows down how fast you can move the focus.
 
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