...then there is REC.2020 ....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2020 
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GH4 Best Day Light Settings With Gh4
- Thread starter Jason Rae
- Start date
For Nvidia cards, you can open Nvidia Control Panel and under Video | Adjust Video color settings, you can toggle between 'With video player settings' or 'With the Nvidia settings'. When you choose the latter, you can select the Dynamic Range value to be either Limited 16-235 or Full 0-255. Previously, I'd gone with the default but now choose the 'With Nvidia settings' and Full 0-255.
My AMD video card control panel has also full and limited range selector. It is for different types of displays. If I have a normal RBG 0-255 monitor I select full range 0-255. If my display or tv shows only limited video scale 16-235 (old monitors) I select 16-235. Both settings is supposed to work with standard legal 16-235 levels video. Full scale mode works so that it expands 16-235 levels to monitor 0-255. In reality there are still about 220 levels if there is no clever interpolation.
Now I have illegal 0-255 GH4 video. If I use video card full scale, whites and black clips because video card thinks my video is normal range. I must choose limited range 16-235 to see normal blacks and whites. This is not good because video card compresses my video to limited range and then expands it to 0-255.
Is there any way to send 0-255 video to RGB monitor without compession and expansion stages?
These level settings may be floating like 32bit floating point editing. There is maybe more steps or headroom in video card or player levels. When I adjust levels in Potplayer the result is not always what it the pure numbers are. Hard to see any difference in monitor when looking Gh4 0-255 or 16-235 settings.
I solved the levels issue for me.
I compared the original GH4 0-255 video source frame and the same frame captured from monitor after output level adjustment 16-235 in Potplayer and video card full range 0-255 mode. I studied the frames in Photoshop and those are absolutely identical, no IQ loss or level conversion.
It is quite disturbing and against common sense to set video output to limited range 16-235 before sending it to video card. The Potplayer has a floating level space and when using a limited output range it actually sends the right levels to video card and monitor. Nothing is lost.
So I use in Potplayer level settings input (source) 0-255 and output 16-235 and video card full scale 0-255. Then I see all the original GH4 0-255 levels right in my monitor.
I can have the same effect by selecting a limited range (16-235) in video card and leaving levels untouched in player. The practical thing with Potplayer is that I can alter levels if I want to enhance levels while playing files or if watching different cameras which has different levels. GH2 for example records 16-255.
I compared the original GH4 0-255 video source frame and the same frame captured from monitor after output level adjustment 16-235 in Potplayer and video card full range 0-255 mode. I studied the frames in Photoshop and those are absolutely identical, no IQ loss or level conversion.
It is quite disturbing and against common sense to set video output to limited range 16-235 before sending it to video card. The Potplayer has a floating level space and when using a limited output range it actually sends the right levels to video card and monitor. Nothing is lost.
So I use in Potplayer level settings input (source) 0-255 and output 16-235 and video card full scale 0-255. Then I see all the original GH4 0-255 levels right in my monitor.
I can have the same effect by selecting a limited range (16-235) in video card and leaving levels untouched in player. The practical thing with Potplayer is that I can alter levels if I want to enhance levels while playing files or if watching different cameras which has different levels. GH2 for example records 16-255.
Astro and c3hammer, I did a bunch more testing tonight tween 0-255 vs 16-235 and, I'll be the first to admit it is entirely possible I am wrong, but I can not see a difference in the noise and/or quality.
Here's how I tested. It is not scientific, just a guy and some wires:
- Samsung UHD 4k computer monitor run at full screen native UHD 3840x2160, HDMI in direct from GH4 camera, 30hz mode
- GH4 running UHD 3480x2160 30p mode, NAT profile, all zeros except SHARP -2
- focused on an area with lights and darks, and foreground out of focus stuff and background
- adjusted NR up and down, it seemed the same for both luminocity settings, so I left it centered
I plugged the camera in and shut off AUTO output down scaling (this didn't make any visual quality difference or changes but I did it just in case), setup my shot at 0-255 luminance and examined the live, in focus noise, the out of focus noise, looked at the noise in the darks and lights. then recorded it for a few seconds to capture the compression.
Then switched over to 16-235, and as expected the lows were brought up into a more viewable range, and the highs were lowered a pinch. This is like what DOLBY does with audio. Anyway, again I looked at the live monitoring noise in and out of focus, darks and lights. It looked identical too my eyes - not better or worse coming strait from sensor (no recorded compression yet). Then I recorded a few second of that for compression review.
Watching the full, unscaled 4K playback of both compressed clips on a native 4K monitor, again, to my eyes, I could not spot any differences in quality or noise. Only the change of the lifted blacks, lowered highs. I have a pair of high magnifying readers for detail work and even tried those on to see if I could SEE any difference. I could not. but the compressed clips looked really, REALLY good at 4K - almost indistinguishable from the live feed I had going. Almost.
Then I dropped everything into Sony Vegas to mess about. Slapping a generic LEVELS plugin on the 0-255 clip making it 16-235, the two clips were nearly identical.... the noise still looked the same, only slightly different noise patterns just like noise looks when you step through anything frame by frame. There was a slight difference in color saturation due to the 16-235 from camera being a little sloppy: it was really reaching 11-237 in my test. but the LEVELS plugin was making things a hard 16-235 - not clipping out, just bringing everything in equally. So that accounted for the tiniest deeper color in 16-235 clip
I really do understand the point of saying the 16-235 produces LESS data, and thus less data to crush in h.264 compression, but I just don't see any difference in the actual output. yes, for sure, 16-235 brings up the lows into a more comfortably viewable range - lifting the up a bit, but my test showed me it was no different than adjusting levels in post production.
For my personal testing, I could not see any degradation to using 0-255 range. Granted, without doing any BANDING tests, I can't prove there is any benefit of 0-255 either, but I still prefer to use the sensor to its maximum abilities within the useable scope of video production. It's no ALEXA, but I want to squeeze as much out of it as possible.
I was going to post up some pics, but that just takes more time, and it is really an experiment everyone interested should try in their own workspace to see what is learned. You don't need a 4K monitor as long as your NLE and picture viewing software allows you to view things at their native size. Vegas can do this in the preview window.
Not trying to discount your theory or what you have experienced in any way. Just giving the results of my experiment.
Here's how I tested. It is not scientific, just a guy and some wires:
- Samsung UHD 4k computer monitor run at full screen native UHD 3840x2160, HDMI in direct from GH4 camera, 30hz mode
- GH4 running UHD 3480x2160 30p mode, NAT profile, all zeros except SHARP -2
- focused on an area with lights and darks, and foreground out of focus stuff and background
- adjusted NR up and down, it seemed the same for both luminocity settings, so I left it centered
I plugged the camera in and shut off AUTO output down scaling (this didn't make any visual quality difference or changes but I did it just in case), setup my shot at 0-255 luminance and examined the live, in focus noise, the out of focus noise, looked at the noise in the darks and lights. then recorded it for a few seconds to capture the compression.
Then switched over to 16-235, and as expected the lows were brought up into a more viewable range, and the highs were lowered a pinch. This is like what DOLBY does with audio. Anyway, again I looked at the live monitoring noise in and out of focus, darks and lights. It looked identical too my eyes - not better or worse coming strait from sensor (no recorded compression yet). Then I recorded a few second of that for compression review.
Watching the full, unscaled 4K playback of both compressed clips on a native 4K monitor, again, to my eyes, I could not spot any differences in quality or noise. Only the change of the lifted blacks, lowered highs. I have a pair of high magnifying readers for detail work and even tried those on to see if I could SEE any difference. I could not. but the compressed clips looked really, REALLY good at 4K - almost indistinguishable from the live feed I had going. Almost.
Then I dropped everything into Sony Vegas to mess about. Slapping a generic LEVELS plugin on the 0-255 clip making it 16-235, the two clips were nearly identical.... the noise still looked the same, only slightly different noise patterns just like noise looks when you step through anything frame by frame. There was a slight difference in color saturation due to the 16-235 from camera being a little sloppy: it was really reaching 11-237 in my test. but the LEVELS plugin was making things a hard 16-235 - not clipping out, just bringing everything in equally. So that accounted for the tiniest deeper color in 16-235 clip
I really do understand the point of saying the 16-235 produces LESS data, and thus less data to crush in h.264 compression, but I just don't see any difference in the actual output. yes, for sure, 16-235 brings up the lows into a more comfortably viewable range - lifting the up a bit, but my test showed me it was no different than adjusting levels in post production.
For my personal testing, I could not see any degradation to using 0-255 range. Granted, without doing any BANDING tests, I can't prove there is any benefit of 0-255 either, but I still prefer to use the sensor to its maximum abilities within the useable scope of video production. It's no ALEXA, but I want to squeeze as much out of it as possible.
I was going to post up some pics, but that just takes more time, and it is really an experiment everyone interested should try in their own workspace to see what is learned. You don't need a 4K monitor as long as your NLE and picture viewing software allows you to view things at their native size. Vegas can do this in the preview window.
Not trying to discount your theory or what you have experienced in any way. Just giving the results of my experiment.
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You fellas seen this article?
http://blog.josephmoore.name/2014/10/29/the-three-most-misunderstood-gh4-settings/
PS. I'm really starting to dig CineLike D. All zeroes except Sharp -2. And I've also found that mentioning correct WB is key as I usually use AWB since it's convenient and I mostly film outdoors. Now, I shoot a 18% gray as it looks like AWB consistently skews blue.
http://blog.josephmoore.name/2014/10/29/the-three-most-misunderstood-gh4-settings/
PS. I'm really starting to dig CineLike D. All zeroes except Sharp -2. And I've also found that mentioning correct WB is key as I usually use AWB since it's convenient and I mostly film outdoors. Now, I shoot a 18% gray as it looks like AWB consistently skews blue.