Best current (affordable) steadicam for the 5D?

Portability is the main point with the Hague Mini. It really is tiny. It's well designed, good materials. No bending here. What bent on yours?

And while on the subject of steadicams, why is it that the American ones, whilst simply being a metal pole with a gimbal joint cost 10x more than the ones made in the UK or India? Cottage industry or what?

My Glidecam 3000 Pro was £300 in the US and the guy in Manchester who just sold it me 3 years later said he hardly used it because it was so bulky, and let it go for £100. It really is just a steel pole with a handle. I don't get why that cost £300 to design and build.
 
mikkowilson said:
It's like spending $5000 on a video camera, and then putting it on a $50 Velbon tripod from Walmart. What's the point?

- Mikko
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The point is some people shot their load on their camera. Do you buy a 3k tripod before you own a camera? What's the point? People are gonna often times have money for one or the other so while I appreciate your sentiment, we can't count other peoples money and spend it. Indie film is all about making do or actually making it and doing, and because someone may not make a product that is aesthetically pleasing as you'd like doesn't make it flimsy. Vimeo is full of guys using this stuff to great effect without breaking their cameras or pockets.
 
commanderspike said:
Portability is the main point with the Hague Mini. It really is tiny. It's well designed, good materials. No bending here. What bent on yours?
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The part that the grip attaches to (in other words the area with the ball-in-socket joint was bending towards where the camera mounts). I was using the 5d2 with 24-105 though, which is slightly heavy. Still, though, considering the cost of my 5d, I won't put it on anything less than the HD2000 now. Just not worth it. I had some close calls.
 
asdfyoyoyo said:
The part that the grip attaches to (in other words the area with the ball-in-socket joint was bending towards where the camera mounts). I was using the 5d2 with 24-105 though, which is slightly heavy. Still, though, considering the cost of my 5d, I won't put it on anything less than the HD2000 now. Just not worth it. I had some close calls.
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Do you have the HD2000? How is it?
 
cinebuddy said:
The point is some people shot their load on their camera. Do you buy a 3k tripod before you own a camera? What's the point? People are gonna often times have money for one or the other so while I appreciate your sentiment, we can't count other peoples money and spend it. Indie film is all about making do or actually making it and doing, and because someone may not make a product that is aesthetically pleasing as you'd like doesn't make it flimsy. Vimeo is full of guys using this stuff to great effect without breaking their cameras or pockets.
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2nd that, two thumbs up. It gets really annoying when pros who make a living from film making say the answer to every problem is to simply spend more money on it. Can't decide between GH1 and 7D? Buy both! Hey, hell, buy three 7Ds!

Not everybody does this for a living.

Good design, innovative engineering, can save you a bundle. The Hague Mini is a perfect example.
 
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asdfyoyoyo said:
The part that the grip attaches to (in other words the area with the ball-in-socket joint was bending towards where the camera mounts). I was using the 5d2 with 24-105 though, which is slightly heavy. Still, though, considering the cost of my 5d, I won't put it on anything less than the HD2000 now. Just not worth it. I had some close calls.
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The design would need beefing up for a heavier camera. So I guess it depends on what lens you intend to use and how good you are at modifying the Hague's handle.

That part is basically a screw with the gimbal on the end. It can be replaced with a screw from a DIY store if it bends. It wouldn't immediately fall apart sending your camera crashing to the ground so that's a bonus :)

The Mini is designed for Mini DV cameras and camcorders. But they do a larger version designed for the DVX / EX1 style camera.

The performance of this system is great. The design works perfectly.

Many of the more expensive steadicams show as much mark up as they do lack of innovation. All we need is basically a telescopic pole with a quick release head, a gimbal mounted handle and a few weights on the bottom. It should fold up to go in a back pack. Yet they tend to be the size of a bus and cost nearly 4 figures. Crazy industry.
 
commanderspike said:
2nd that, two thumbs up. It gets really annoying when pros who make a living from film making say the answer to every problem is to simply spend more money on it. Can't decide between GH1 and 7D? Buy both! Hey, hell, buy three 7Ds!

Not everybody does this for a living.

Good design, innovative engineering, can save you a bundle. The Hague Mini is a perfect example.
Click to expand...

But most people around here talk and act like they do it for a living, then combat those who do when they're offering advice from a founded perspective of DOING not THEORIZING.

I'm pointing no fingers.

What Mikko said is absolutely right. Stabilization is just as important as the camera. A crap tripod or system will be exactly what it is: crap. Try doing a diagonal tilt on a Bogen head then go to a Sachtler. Then, come back and let me know how the audience liked your stairstepping action with the "affordable" Bogen. This is exactly why I rent instead of spending thousands on a combo that's suitable for professional image acquisition.

The Hague mini? I disagree with it. It's difficult to work with for one and after owning one I can't see it working well with the 7D's weight when considering the body alone. Adding a decent piece of glass will further destroy the possibility.
 
I bought my Hague for my HV30 awhile back. It works PERFECT for that application. The HV30 is a good weight and balance on the hague. I'm just saying, I have personally put my 5d2 on my hague and it started to bend after about 5 minutes of usage. I don't have anything to gain by saying my opinion is to not use the 5d2 on the hague. I don't work for Glidecam or anything. I'm just saying, there's no way I'm gonna ruin my Hague by bending it with the excess weight of the 5d2, plus I'm not gonna sit that expensive a camera on something that might fail under it (regarless of what the hague costs. even if it was 600 bucks I wouldn't put the 5d2 on it. it's just a matter of design and parts)
 
asdfyoyoyo said:
I bought my Hague for my HV30 awhile back. It works PERFECT for that application. The HV30 is a good weight and balance on the hague. I'm just saying, I have personally put my 5d2 on my hague and it started to bend after about 5 minutes of usage. I don't have anything to gain by saying my opinion is to not use the 5d2 on the hague. I don't work for Glidecam or anything. I'm just saying, there's no way I'm gonna ruin my Hague by bending it with the excess weight of the 5d2, plus I'm not gonna sit that expensive a camera on something that might fail under it (regarless of what the hague costs. even if it was 600 bucks I wouldn't put the 5d2 on it. it's just a matter of design and parts)
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Exactly. The Mkii is WAY too heavy for the Hague and certainly the 7D is even worse.

This from owning and using.
 
Kholi said:
The Hague mini? I disagree with it. It's difficult to work with for one and after owning one I can't see it working well with the 7D's weight when considering the body alone. Adding a decent piece of glass will further destroy the possibility.
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Like I said before, you need to add more weights onto the bottom of it. These don't come as standard I have tested it with the 5D (pretty much same weight and proportions as the 7D) and it's fine, even with a large heavy lens. See my video.

Balance the camera with the appropriate weights.
 
Kholi said:
This is exactly why I rent instead of spending thousands on a combo that's suitable for professional image acquisition.
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That's a location issue too. Renting here is not cost effective at all for personal projects that's why i've struggled to collect as much grip stuff as I can...even HMI's because our local "rental house" charges $250 a day for a 575w. But you gotta figure with the Hague in the convo there's no money in the budget for anything more expensive. You big market guys got it good, and Mikko is a man amongst boys with that archer setup.
 
For only $100 more you could get a Steadicam Merlin 2 or for $150ish a Glidecam or Blackbird. Out of those, I've only used the Merlin and it definitely takes a while to set up properly and learn how to use. However, after a few weeks of playing around with it, you can get some pretty great shots. The Merlin is the lightest system and it folds into a small case that you can carry onto planes. The only disadvantages I've found are that you can't do low-mode shots with it and it's awkward to set down if you don't have a table or stand.

Also, not that it necessarily matters performance wise, but Garrett Brown designed the Merlin and I'd personally much rather support him than some cheep Chinese company stealing his ideas, especially if it doesn't cost that much more.
 
I'm all for "knockoffs" if they keep companies like steadicam in check for charging ridiculous prices fpr rigs that are not that expensive to manufacture. Unfortunately, I have yet to see another stabalizer company create a product that performs near the level of steadicam so I'm forced to pay the steadicam prices (there are valid competitors but only past the 10K big rig range.)

In my experiences the Chinese knockoffs (and even glidecams to some extent) have poorly made gimbals with a lot of friction or slippage and fall apart easily. The arms are also not very iso-elastic either. Don't get me wrong steadicams also need servicing (and it aint cheap) but they're in the US so it makes it easier to have the work done. In full disclosure I did have an issue with steadicam recently where I needed my gimbal serviced and they took longer than promised to fix it causing me to have to rent a rig for a shoot. They fixed it for free though.

It's tempting to go for a full size off brand versus Merlin. The full size rig will give you much more inertia by design, however its a tease because of the above problems you will experience. A merlin can achieve some really nice results but it takes more practice and a finer touch than a full size rig and you can forget about outdoor shots unless there is no wind at all. You also will want an arm/vest for fatigue as well as offsetting the up/down vibrations.

My recommendation would be to not waste time or money on the small rigs and save up for a steadicam solo or above with an arm/vest. You can also buy a used pilot or flyer le. If you have a project that needs a steadicam shot then hire a steadicam operator. If your needs truly are small then get a Merlin 1 used (just make sure its in good condition) and practice. You will wind up having a finer touch than most big rig opporators have that never learnt on rigs that required a gentle hand.
 
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