Best Camera/Camcorder for an absolute beginner?

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Danvok

New member
Hello, I'm new here.

I'm looking to blossom into a director one day and am looking to start by making short films and putting them to youtube. However, I'm a complete novice. I'm reading books about film making and shots, lighting, etc etc but have no practical film experience. With my first camera, I want to just learn as much as possible without hitting the learning ceiling and having to buy another camera too soon.

Does anyone have any recommendations? I've looked up many different types of camcorders but the fact that you can't change the lens, and thus are limited to the installed one, seems a little discouraging for learning.

Also, my budget is in about the $500-$1000 range to begin. I can go a little higher if anyone thinks of any really good recommendations.

P.S- Should I buy used or new?
 
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Welcome Danvok. You may get a great number of different answers here, but for the type of work you are doing (short films) and the budget you have I suggest a kit like the following:
1.) T3i $599 w/kit lens
2.) A nifty 50 Canon 1.8 for a bit over $100 dollars
3.) A decent tri pod. Maybe spend $75 to $100 They can be VERY expensive for a really great one but for now...you have the budget you have.
4.) A Zoom or Tascam sound recorder. But maybe that can come later if you are just experimenting with visuals for the time being.

Experiment/Learn photography and play with composition/dof/lighting. Shoot. shoot some more. shoot some more.
The kit I mentioned could be done with different brands as well. GH2 body plus lens, etc. Sony NEX 5R plus lens, etc etc. Just to let you know, the Canon and Nikon bodies have optical view finders that black out for video recording, so you need to use the LCD for framing and composing - The GH2 has an EVF that works in video mode.
I suggested stills cameras rather than a dedicated video cam, because while video cameras are much better for "video" purposes...like running and grabbing footage any time any where- the stills cams have sensors similar to the size of super 35mm movies. Giving you far more creative control over DOF and of course perspectives with being able to choose your lenses. You can control shutter speed/aperture/iso to your liking. Just remember you need to keep the camera stable and practice to get the results you're after. These are not point and shoot video cams AT ALL. Another plus of learning on these types of cameras is that the lenses you buy can be kept and used as your budget increases for the camera bodies. If you later upgrade to say - A Canon C100, Sony FS100, or Panasonic AF100! Pretty awesome time to be getting into the game. Just over 5 years ago the best things going cost far more to get shallow dof, 24P, HD, full manual control and use your own lenses.
Good luck!
An example of a T2i at work with the right hands operating it
http://vimeo.com/10314280
and the same hands on a GH2
http://vimeo.com/17062701
Trailer for a full length movie shot on the Canon 7D (essentially the exact same movie mode found on the t3i)
http://vimeo.com/dogfishpictures/likecrazy
 
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Danvok said:
I'm reading books about film making and shots, lighting, etc etc but have no practical film experience. With my first camera, I want to just learn as much as possible without hitting the learning ceiling and having to buy another camera too soon.
P.S- Should I buy used or new?
Click to expand...
1) At least you're doing your homeworks. That's a good thing. Best way to learn (once you know what to do) is to practice. When I started I was using a Digital8 camcorder. Kept it for almost 10 years, then I've upgraded to an HDV one (Canon HV40) and upgraded my equipment with a DSLR last year (Canon T2i). I'd say, any camcorder/camera can deliver decent results, provided you know the tool's limitation and what to do to compensate it (mostly lighting) then you'll get a decent picture out of it. I'd say camcorder would be easier to start (in my case it's been though) than DSLR, but with a couple extra items (like ND filters) a DSLR would probably be the best bet/compromise for a mid/long period of time.
2) I bought my HV40 brand new but my T2i used (from a fellow forumer) and in both case I never regretted it.

And of course:
pulpfiction007 said:
3.) A decent tri pod. Maybe spend $75 to $100 They can be VERY expensive for a really great one but for now...you have the budget you have.
4.) A Zoom or Tascam sound recorder. But maybe that can come later if you are just experimenting with visuals for the time being.
Click to expand...
3) I bought a Weifeing 717 (from this amazon seller) and I think it was a very good compromise between a cheap one and a good one, like the Manfrottos.
4) External audio is always preferable. Onboard & camera-mounted audio always sounds amateurish. Better to get a portable recorder and in worst case, get a Lavalier mic (Azden EX-503 runs for less than 30$ on B&H and sounds great):

If you want, check on my vimeo profile. I've done a couple of short films with my HV40 and T2i.
 
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I agree 100% with the above recommendations of either the Canon T3i or the Panasonic GH2. You can find great deals on used GH2 now that the GH3 is out.

For audio get the Rode VideoMic or VideoMic Pro and rig it to a painters pole from HomeDepot. when budget allows get an audio recorder like the Zoom h4n or Tascam DR40.

I like manfrotto tripods. For video you need a fluid head.
 
sigamy said:
For audio get the Rode VideoMic or VideoMic Pro and rig it to a painters pole from HomeDepot. when budget allows get an audio recorder like the Zoom h4n or Tascam DR40.
I like manfrotto tripods. For video you need a fluid head.
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1) About painter poles, I've used a MrLongArm for a while before I invested 150$ for the RØDE 10ft one. I don't regret it, once you worked with a proper one, you don't want to use the painter pole again! Always useful to have one in the gear though. Here's my painter pole setup, which cost less than 35$:
IMG_5141.JPG

2) As for recorder, make sure to invest in one with XLR inputs. I'm using a simple Tascam DR-05, but with my JuicedLink CX211. That way I can get XLR and good preamplification while recording with a sub-100$ recorder. Good sound. But if you'll be investing, get one with XLR inputs like the DR-40.
3) For video, fluid head is a must-have. The Weifeng I've linked is most probably the best "bang-for-the-buck" available. I don't regret it. If you can invest more money, get a nice Manfrotto: it'll last longer than you! ;)
 
I know I am the minority here, but bad business is spending your total budget or overspending. Buy a camera, decent tripod, and a decent mic (Rode VideoMic is decent enough). Don't worry about the boom pole, or anything else for that matter. You are a novice, therefore, don't overwhelm yourself with buying equipment. Network with other fellow film makers who have an interest in working with you, who may or may not be experienced, and learn film making as a TEAM. Film making is a TEAM effort, not a one man band, even if some are able to do it. This is coming from someone who has been a one man crew in many situations. You cannot operate a boom pole and operate a camera at the same time. Some might say "well, you can lock off the camera while holding up the boom". Well you can't focus the lens or move the camera if you are using both hands to operate a boom pole. And if you're shooting on a DSLR, focusing is much more apparent.

The rest of your budget can go towards a production, buying gas, food, props (if you can't find someone willing to let you borrow one), wardrobe, hair products or make up. The smartest move you can make as an independent film maker is not spend money. NO BUDGET or low budget film making is working with a low or no budget.
 
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Jimmy Pierce said:
I know I am the minority here, but bad business is spending your total budget or overspending. Buy a camera, decent tripod, and a decent mic (Rode VideoMic is decent enough). Don't worry about the boom pole, or anything else for that matter. You are a novice, therefore, don't overwhelm yourself with buying equipment. Network with other fellow film makers who have an interest in working with you, who may or may not be experienced, and learn film making as a TEAM. Film making is a TEAM effort, not a one man band, even if some are able to do it. This is coming from someone who has been a one man crew in many situations. You cannot operate a boom pole and operate a camera at the same time. Some might say "well, you can lock off the camera while holding up the boom". Well you can't focus the lens or move the camera if you are using both hands to operate a boom pole. And if you're shooting on a DSLR, focusing is much more apparent.

The rest of your budget can go towards a production, buying gas, food, props (if you can't find someone willing to let you borrow one), wardrobe, hair products or make up. The smartest move you can make as an independent film maker is not spend money. NO BUDGET or low budget film making is working with a low or no budget.
Click to expand...

I don't think you are in the minority...we all gave recommendations for LOW priced gear. He does need something to shoot on, to practice, to learn composition...etc. I agree that in the early stages....sound equipment can be purchased a bit later. (or he can find a good sound guy to work with IF making a narrative). I would personally start by making a few shorts where live sound isn't part of the equation(use music, backdrops etc) ...then once he knows the camera a bit better move on to more ambitious projects. I agree with going where your budget is very comfortable, which is why I recommended the cameras I did and didn't say: Get a loan fo a C100
 
Thanks for the advice everyone! I've looked around and tried the T3I in stores and found it deep although, I think, doable. I was also taught some of the very basic (newbie) features of the camera and was even able to fool around with a bunch of the different lenses for free. I'll test out the GH2 when I go to the stores next, as I've seen some really good reviews and I'm following the recommendations in this thread.
 
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I don't think anyone mentioned this, but buying a used version might save you a good chunk of money and perhaps when you are ready to devote more time and money into this profession, you can upgrade to a new camera; something exactly what you want and catered to your needs once you find them out. It is important to have three things, a camera body, a lens and a tripod.
 
I sorta agree with Jimmy. You should consider good quality used equipment and I would suggest that you go with a small camcorder kit. Your outlet is YouTube and you will be working within the YouTube structure. Your advantage with a fixed lens and built in audio and viewfinder and screen is less to connect, and easier to carry around. Many of the members here made excellent productions using "all in one" camcorders. The DSLR gang will disagree and thats fine I like DSLR's for some things and my NEX7 for others my FS100 for others, but I have to say I also miss my HMC150 very much on lots of shoots because it did the job well and it let me concentrate on the story rather than worrying about the connections etc.
In any case welcome and all the best for a wonderful career in an industry that will constantly change and promises never to be dull.
Brian
 
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