Best Boom Pole/Mic Operation Method

K

KyranFord

Well-known member
I am looking for recommendations on methods of operating a boom pole. What is the best source of recording the audio to? I don't necessarily want to record straight into a DSLR. In simple talk: I am using an XLR mic and my boom pole operator is going to be farther away from me (cinematographer). What would be a good (or the best/easiest) method of recording the audio into?

Any help is greatly appreciated!
-Thanks
 
Where shall we begin. Have you read the stickies? Have you done a search? The whole DSLR recording issue has been discussed often, so there is a wealth of info in the archives.

The answer to you question lies in your budget, which you didn't mention, and who is going to be doing the recording. Do you expect the boom operator to also record? Are you intending to have a dedicated audio mixing bag with mixer and recorder, or are you thinking of recording to something like a H4n or DR100. How much quality do you want? Did you consider wireless so you can record near the cam?

At the most basic level, I have done some recording with a shotgun plus boom pole, a cheapo recorder mounted on the pole, and a set of headphones. This would be the absolute minimum arrangement for recording, will work in a pinch, but is far from a professional scheme. Go up from there with equipment and personnel. Make sure the person running the gear has a clue.

Expand on your needs and you'll get better help.

Grant
 
grrantly, thanks for the reply. Sorry I didn't clarify. I've tried searching and can't seem to find much on what exactly I'm looking for.

I'm thinking of recording to some type of external source; something like an external audio recorder that has an XLR port... Would that be the easiest method? I don't particularly need fantastic audio quality, but I want something that is halfway decent. I am looking at achieving almost exactly what you have referred to as the most basic level.
 
KyranFord said:
grrantly, thanks for the reply. Sorry I didn't clarify. I've tried searching and can't seem to find much on what exactly I'm looking for.

I'm thinking of recording to some type of external source; something like an external audio recorder that has an XLR port... Would that be the easiest method? I don't particularly need fantastic audio quality, but I want something that is halfway decent. I am looking at achieving almost exactly what you have referred to as the most basic level.
Click to expand...

I don't understand why you can't find much on what you wan't to do. What you describe is standard practice. Audio 101. Recording dialog to an external source is called double system sound. It's why slates have clappers or time code. All pro gear has balanced XLR connections. Mic -> mixer -> recorder. Incorporate wireless radios as needed/desired. (Most boom ops are wireless. In fact, all audio is wireless on most modern sets - boom, lavs, camera hops, IFB...)
 
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Kyran,

The audio board plays a little harder than some, but you will get help. What do you shoot? What is your budget?

Grant
 
Kyran. there are a couple of things going on here.

Your thread title and original post both confuse the matter by citing boom operation technique when what you're really asking is about is a recording device. The distance from the boom op to the camera doesn't dictate the type of recorder used, at least inasmuch as you've made it seem in your question. You have a mic that interfaces with XLR output, which is good as balanced cable can be run across greater distances without signal degradation. So now it's just down to what device records the signal, and where that device is located.

Recording in-camera is a no-brainer if you're using a camera with XLR ins and good audio quality. DSLR in-camera audio can be made palpable by defeating he AGC and sending a decent, pre-amped signal into the camera... but this still isn't the best option out there. An external recorder can be operated and monitored near the camera by a mixer/recordist working with the boom op, or it can be operated by the boom op who then becomes your recordist. Either way, your boom op needs to be able to monitor the audio during the shoot.

KyranFord said:
I don't particularly need fantastic audio quality, but I want something that is halfway decent.
Click to expand...

Unless this is a flat-out hobby with no intent of career aspirations, don't cheap-out on audio. Cheap and inexpensive aren't necessarily the same thing, but be aware of what differentiates the two.
 
I'm assuming I should then have the audio recorded with the XLR mic and fed into an external audio recorder like the Tascam DR40 or Zoom H4n. Is this my best bet for recording dialogue away from the camera?

If this were to be my solution, how exactly should I have the devices set up?
 
KyranFord said:
I'm assuming I should then have the audio recorded with the XLR mic and fed into an external audio recorder like the Tascam DR40 or Zoom H4n. Is this my best bet for recording dialogue away from the camera?
Click to expand...

What's your budget? I mean, in a general sense, an external recorder is exactly what you need to record dialog separate from the camera. Past that. "best bet" depends on how much you can or want to invest.

KyranFord said:
If this were to be my solution, how exactly should I have the devices set up?
Click to expand...

What, exactly, do you want to know? XLR cable from mic to recorder, recorder set to external mic in, levels properly set, headphones connected for constant monitoring. This will be a little different if you have a mixer or external pre-amp in the signal chain.
 
My budget, I'd like to not transpire over a couple hundred.

What you've listed is exactly what I want. Now I'm curious as to how I need to have this rigged. Would I have the external audio recorded attached to the boom pole? I know with my Zoom H1, movement causes horrid noise.
 
Wait... are you intending to feed this recorder with an external (XLR-connected) mic, or to use the recorder as the mic? The reason I ask is that you mention use of an external mic in your original post, but this question leads me to believe you'd want to put the recorder at the end of the boom.

If you're using an external mic, you'll not have the movement issue. Simply connect the mic to the recorder, and your boom op will have to be responsible for operation and monitoring of the recorder, which can be in a waist pack worn by the boom op.

If you're wanting to use the on-board mics of the recorder, and are planning to put it on the end of the boom... think again. This is a bad idea for many, many reasons. The mics have too wide a response pattern, and are difficult to place properly. Plus, dialog should not be reocrded in stereo, and the location of the recorder in this scenario puts it too far away for proper monitoring and operation.
 
Had a major glitch. I wrote a huge tutorial on boom ops and in the process of editing it, I lost half of it. Maybe I will try again later.
 
I will tackle the first question, because, I think it's valid and I have a bit of time.

Handling/Operating the Boom:

How you handle the boom pole? Very gently. Sounds like a joke, but its not. I will share a few tips/tricks I use.

You never grip it like a baseball bat or a staff weapon, with both hands wrapped around it tightly. You find a pivot point with your leading hand and support the pole. With the rear hand, put positive downward pressure on the pole. Your mic should float out in front. Never make snap/rapid movements with the pole when recording, anticipate the move and be smooth. (keeps the cable/mechanical noise down). If your boom is not a wired one, wrap the XLR cable tightly around the pole and secure the top end with some grip tape. Even with internally wired ones, jostle/move too fast, you will get noise.

Find ways to lock your arms straight while holding the pole in the position you need if you have to be overhead and level to be out of the shot. If you have to be "high" but not level, I use the behind the neck/on the shoulder method. This allows me to use my shoulder as a pivot point, one arm to provide counterbalance and the other to mix/operate the recorder. I have even used the top of my head as a pivot point. Low angles, I use my bag to be a pivot point sometimes. But find ways to make it comfortable, as you are the guy that usually goes home the most tired and sore because you are doing this activity every take and every scene. That pole and gear, though it may not weigh much, at the end of the day........it seems to weigh a LOT more.

You NEED to be constantly aware what the camera is doing, so watch what they are doing, especially in rehearsals. Find out where you want to be, and then ask camera what is that frame line for that side. (Frame R, Frame L, Top, Bottom) Give yourself a buffer zone, just in case you wobble, or camera moves too far. Invariably, Boom gets blamed either way.

Never think you have to always boom above the actor. It might sound better below, or to either side. But always be as close as you can without getting into frame.

The mic must always point at the talent being recorded for audio. So be cognizant of the angle of your mount/mic. I am always changing mine to make sure this happens.

If you are monitoring sound........and you hear something that shouldn't be there, say something the first opportunity you can. I usually let the scene run, and let the director and scripty know at "cut" how the take was. I let them know what I heard, and they make the decision on if it needs another take or not. If asked my opinion.....always get a safety take. During the take when I hear something bad, I look at either the director or 1st AD or scripty, shake my head and tap my 'phones. That the universal sign for "bad audio". Also be aware where the noise occurred during the take. If dialogue wasn't affected, then it may not need a retake. And that brings up another point. Room Tone. Make sure you record in the room for as long as the longest scene in that room, with all equipment/set dec/people, etc. but with everyone being absolutely silent. This give the editor material to fill in those noisy parts that didn't affect dialogue.

Last thing I can offer: Buy a slate. I have shown up on set several times and nobody has one. I tell them, I got one, and I become the hero. The editor will love you.

I hope this helps you about boom ops, and as you can see now, a boom op is not a glorified C-stand. There is a lot more that goes into doing it right. And a heck more I haven't mentioned, but this gives you a start and idea what is involved.

Hopefully you won't find me lynched by other sound guys for telling you this.

Thanks, Alex, for the recover!!!!!!!!!
 
Alex H. said:
If you're using an external mic, you'll not have the movement issue. Simply connect the mic to the recorder, and your boom op will have to be responsible for operation and monitoring of the recorder, which can be in a waist pack worn by the boom op.
Click to expand...
I presumed it wouldn't be a problem, but I just wanted to clarify.

So, I can record from an XLR mic into an external audio recorder (provided with XLR ports) straight onto the SD card. Now, if I was to have an XLR mic feeding into the external audio recorder, there would be absolutely no audio coming from the recorder, correct? Only the XLR mic? Also, where would the recorder be placed?

It's actually not me that's operating the boom pole, but thanks a ton for all of this information. I could actually be a boom op one day on higher projects that aren't mine and I will be sure to pass this info along. One quick question: I'm aware of why slates are important and what they do, but what's so special about them? Especially on smaller projects.
 
It to sync up the audio with the camera, if you are recording audio and video seperately, and even if you are going into camera, editors love to see reel, scene and take at the beginning of every take. It makes it easy for them to sort out the clips.
 
KyranFord said:
So, I can record from an XLR mic into an external audio recorder (provided with XLR ports) straight onto the SD card. Now, if I was to have an XLR mic feeding into the external audio recorder, there would be absolutely no audio coming from the recorder, correct? Only the XLR mic? Also, where would the recorder be placed?
Click to expand...

If you have the recorder set to external (XLR) input, there will be nothing recorded from the built-in mics. As for where the recorder would be placed, please re-read my last post.

KyranFord said:
One quick question: I'm aware of why slates are important and what they do, but what's so special about them? Especially on smaller projects.
Click to expand...

Even on smaller projects, when you're running double-system sound (audio recorded separately from the video), having the slate and sync mark can save you lots of time and frustration in post when you go to match up the files.
 
One thing to keep in mind that I havent seen mentioned yet is the issue of Phantom power for condenser microphones.

Just because it has an XLR the microphone may require either a battery or phantom power or the microphone will NOT function.

so make sure what the requirements for the microphone are as well as to what the recorder can provide.

Hope that helps too.

GG
 
Just to pile on a little more, recording directly from mic to a cheapo recorder has quality compromises. Riding levels while recording, limiter quality, and having enough pre-amp gain are at the top of the compromise list.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
Just to pile on a little more, recording directly from mic to a cheapo recorder has quality compromises. Riding levels while recording, limiter quality, and having enough pre-amp gain are at the top of the compromise list.

Grant
Click to expand...
Meaning, use a mixer in front of the recorder, yes?
 
Doc Bernard said:
It to sync up the audio with the camera, if you are recording audio and video seperately, and even if you are going into camera, editors love to see reel, scene and take at the beginning of every take. It makes it easy for them to sort out the clips.
Click to expand...
I'm aware of the second reason, but I don't know why I have never thought about the first reason you listed! That would actually be loads of help; Thank you!

Alex H. said:
If you have the recorder set to external (XLR) input, there will be nothing recorded from the built-in mics. As for where the recorder would be placed, please re-read my last post.
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So, I should have the mic and recorder mounted side by side on the end of the pole?

recordingwhiz said:
One thing to keep in mind that I havent seen mentioned yet is the issue of Phantom power for condenser microphones.

Just because it has an XLR the microphone may require either a battery or phantom power or the microphone will NOT function.

so make sure what the requirements for the microphone are as well as to what the recorder can provide.

Hope that helps too.

GG
Click to expand...
ggrantly said:
Just to pile on a little more, recording directly from mic to a cheapo recorder has quality compromises. Riding levels while recording, limiter quality, and having enough pre-amp gain are at the top of the compromise list.

Grant
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input.
 
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