best 2 camera option for around $2500?

G

gutterball321

Well-known member
I am a videographer that does photography as a hobby. I currently own a Panasonic GH2 and a GH3. I chose the Panasonic GH series because I love not having a recording limit and they do not overheat and shut off. I have been getting questions from my clients why I cant get the shallow depth of field as your average youtuber, and I realized its because the Panasonic line just doesnt cut it. Sharp images but just doesnt stand out on youtube as your average 12 year old with a t3i.

So i am thinking of selling my gear and going one of 2 options. I do video first but also enjoy photography, and I know either option would be fine for photography.

so option 1:
2 Canon 70d's. 2 of the same camera would make my life easier and probably look more professional. I wouldnt have to worry as much about matching footage in post either. Just need to know if this camera has a recording limit or overheats? I had a Canon 7d in the past which over heated, had to be restarted every 12 minutes and ruined me on a couple shoots when it overheated and wouldnt turn back for the rest of the shoot. Is the 70d improved from this?

Option 2:
Either a Canon 5d Mark ii with a T3i/T4i or something similar
or
Canon 6d with the T3i/T4i or something similar/cheap.
I cant find which would give better video between the 5dmii or the 6d.

Some of you may say to stick with the GH cameras. If these canon cameras will all over heat or not be able to break the recording limit I may have to. But I would like that extra shallow depth of field and something a little better for photography. I didnt notice much of a difference between my GH3 and Canon 7d video wise, but mixing my gh3 with a friends 5dmii was not even useable because the 5d was so much better.

any advice or recommendations on these options? I need the cameras for interviews, filmmaking, weddings and promotional videos so pretty much every situation you can think of.



***I also want to know if anyone has video interviews or talking heads with the Canon 70d. All I can ever find for test footage is nature shots which dont really help me. Unless people are close to the camera in the test footage, it is pretty much pointless.
 
I'm not offering this as an informed response per se, but rather a philosophical approach: I try not to spend too much on things that depreciate fast. After all, just look at this board, which is based on the Panasonic cameras everyone was demanding for indy video in 2007. Remember when everyone needed a 35mm lens adapter? Things change.

A 5d3 is going to be virtually worthless in three or four years. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not buying an HVX200 today. Who is? So this is an issue to me.

Do you have an opinion on those Blackmagic pocket cinema cameras? Not sure how fast a lens you can put on micro 4/3, but they're only $999.

I'm trying to find out whether using an a/c adapter reduces the overheating on a t*i. Read somewhere it's less of a problem with the t4i/t5i.
 
szegedin said:
I'm not offering this as an informed response per se, but rather a philosophical approach: I try not to spend too much on things that depreciate fast. After all, just look at this board, which is based on the Panasonic cameras everyone was demanding for indy video in 2007. Remember when everyone needed a 35mm lens adapter? Things change.

A 5d3 is going to be virtually worthless in three or four years. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not buying an HVX200 today. Who is? So this is an issue to me.

Do you have an opinion on those Blackmagic pocket cinema cameras? Not sure how fast a lens you can put on micro 4/3, but they're only $999.

I'm trying to find out whether using an a/c adapter reduces the overheating on a t*i. Read somewhere it's less of a problem with the t4i/t5i.
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Good points. I dont have much of an interest in the black magic pocket cams. They dont have the 2 things I want, shallow depth of field and good photography. I also just purchased the new rMBP and it wouldnt be able to handle editing the bmpcc, it already edits my GH3 footage super slow compared to every computer I have ever used at work/friends/internships
 
I hear you on the computer bottleneck thing. Beg to differ on the Blackmagic camera, I think the footage looks great. Things are developing so fast, I would be wary of spending more than a grand. Used t2is are pretty much not dropping in price (299 body KEH) because of magic lantern, while t5is are not much more than that new. Meanwhile some codec that can bridge the gap between h264 and raw is just around the corner. Getting to old to keep up with this. Seems like cameras are about to settle at a point where something less than $1000 is good enough for absolutely anything. What about the Canon eos-M as camera 2? Selling for 299 brand new right now. It's a good time to have problems like you have.
 
gutterball321 said:
I am a videographer that does photography as a hobby. I currently own a Panasonic GH2 and a GH3. I chose the Panasonic GH series because I love not having a recording limit and they do not overheat and shut off. I have been getting questions from my clients why I cant get the shallow depth of field as your average youtuber, and I realized its because the Panasonic line just doesnt cut it. Sharp images but just doesnt stand out on youtube as your average 12 year old with a t3i..
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You may not want to hear this, but maybe it's your technique rather than your cameras.

While a M4/3 sensor does not have quite as shallow depth of field as a S35 size sensor camera, if you know what you are doing you can get depth of field so shallow only a nose is in focus. So saying that the Panasonic line just doesn't cut it, it not really true. Also take note, that by adding a Metabones Speed Booster to your M4/3 cameras could get you closer to your desired results.
 
David W. Jones said:
You may not want to hear this, but maybe it's your technique rather than your cameras.

While a M4/3 sensor does not have quite as shallow depth of field as a S35 size sensor camera, if you know what you are doing you can get depth of field so shallow only a nose is in focus. So saying that the Panasonic line just doesn't cut it, it not really true. Also take note, that by adding a Metabones Speed Booster to your M4/3 cameras could get you closer to your desired results.
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Everyone keeps saying this but its not my technique, ive used these canon cameras and got the shallow depth of field and a better look for short films. I just cant figure out if I can get around the overheating and recording limits which is why I havent made the change yet.
 
6Dhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...tiveASIN=B009B0MZ8U&linkCode=as2&tag=dfn0c-20
70Dhttp://www.amazon.com/Canon-20-2-Di..._1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386341922&sr=8-1&keywords=70D

Around 2500$ for both and you get a great combination of cameras! With one FF and one APSC body you are doubling the FOV of your lenses!
6D is one of the best low light DSLRs and of course great for photography too!
70D has the amazing new AF system, its better in low light than the previous crop models and very good for photography too! Better than the 7D was...
They both have a 30min limit in recording and for the limited time Im using them I ve never seen them overheating...in fact except the 550D the 7D and the 5Dmkii I havent seen or heard overheating issues to the other bodies.
Here is a wedding trailer shot mostly on 70D and 6D: https://vimeo.com/77483365#at=0
I have a question...Except the 2500$ for the cameras, what is your budget for lenses?
 
So you would go with the 6d over the 5dmark ii? I see i could probably get the 5d mark ii with the 24-70 lens on ebay for the same price as the 6d but didnt know the 6d and 70d fixed the overheating problem i had with my old 7d. Which would have better video?

For lenses I already have the Tamron 17-50 2.8, the canon fd 28mm, 50mm and 35-105mm lenses. So for lenses i would def add the 50mm 1.4 right away and probably have to save for some new lenses later on.
 
Yes Id take the 6D over the 5Dmkii because its much cleaner in high ISOs!
But Im afraid that you ll have problems with your lenses. The Tamron is a crop lens, so it will not work on a FF and I m not sure about your FD lenses...
For the 70D the tamron should work with the new AF system, but I havent tried it and I dont know how well it will perform. I ve tried the sigma 17-50 and the 17-70 and they were horrible! Slow and noisy...!
The canon STM lenses and the new sigma 18-35mm are the best with the new AF system! Canon 50mm 1.4 works fine...
I dont know...since you will have to put lenses also in your 2500$ budget, it might be better to go with the cheapest possible options...and that would be the 5Dmkii with the 24-70 that you have found and for a second body
I would suggest the 600D because you can find it cheap, it doesnt overheat and it has a nice 3X crop mode...
I m not sure if Im really helping you or confusing you more...:embarasse
 
gutterball321 said:
Everyone keeps saying this but its not my technique
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Really, why would everybody be saying this then?

You do realize that shooting with a GH2 using a 50mm lens @ f1.4 from 5' will give you a very shallow 1.5" depth of field?

That is just one example!

1 1/2 inch depth of field is pretty darn shallow. Are you sure it's not your technique, or is everybody else wrong?
 
The DOF difference between the m4/3 format and APS-C is only 1 F-Stop, so selecting faster m4/3 lenses is an easy fix if depth of field is an issue for you. Lots of m4/3 f/0.95 lenses around.

The new "Speed Booster" adapters are another m4/3 route to get the SAME or better DOF of the APS-C format, while getting one additional F-Stop in lens speed. For example a 50mm f/1.4 lens becomes a 35mm f/1.0 lens with a m4/3 "Speed Booster" adapter. ( a 24-70 f/2.8 zoom lens becomes a 17-50mm f/2.0 lens with the SAME DOF that an APS-C camera has )

I think you are writing off the m4/3 format before you've explored all of your options.
 
It's not just depth if field, owning a gh2 for 2 years then a gh3, I used a friends 5d mark ii to mix cams for a short film and the 5d looked WAY more professional. Maybe I'd have to go full frame and the 70d wouldn't get this same look.
 
What lenses are you using? I use the GH cameras a lot and I've been quite happy with the results. Some situations better than others to be honest but generally quite good. It's all down to glass in my opinion and you don't have to spend a lot. I have canon FD lens which was about £30 and that gives a much nicer image that my RED lenses.

Saying that you NEED full frame isn't right. That would mean that everything shot on the Alexa and Epic didn't look professional.

I think you should try and learn to use what you have. So you can't get those creamy images like from the 5D? Well firstly, you can. You just need faster glass. And if you don't want to buy that, try making pretty image with a wider DOF.

Lots of beautiful stuff has been shot on the GH cameras. Look at what they have done and try to emulate that in your own work.
 
gutterball321 said:
the 5d looked WAY more professional
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Can you explain what you mean by this ?


I've used both cameras and the main differences I find are...

- Better low-light performance with the 5D ( I don't do a lot of night shooting, but if I did a C100 or a 5D Mk3 camera would be first on my list )
- Very shallow DOF with fast lenses, but most of the time it's TOO shallow, so I'm stopping down to f/4.0 - f/5.6 to get a workable DOF range ( this equates to f/2.0 - f/2.8 with Micro 4/3 )
- Better skin-tone if you don't do color correction and grading in post ( I ALWAYS color correct and grade, so this makes no difference to me )

What I do like about the Micro 4/3 format is...

- Unlimited recording times with no over-heat issues
- Able to use tons of older Canon FD, Nikon AI-S lenses that are dirt cheap to buy
- The SpeedBooster tech that creates extremely fast lens options ( every f/1.4 lens becomes a f/1.0 lens, every f/2.0 lens becomes a f/1.4 lens )
- Lower cost m4/3 bodies ( the GH3 has been on sale for less than $900 )
- The Blackmagic Pocket Cine camera that can be bought for $995 ( 13 stops of dynamic range recorded in RAW format )

Also, if the rumors hold out there is a 4K m4/3 camera coming from Panasonic next year, which will be able to use all of the current m4/3 and adapted lenses.
 
szegedin said:
You may not want to hear this, but people don't want to hear you trolling them with a pattern of negative comments that veer off the substance of his question. Or is everybody else wrong?
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Giving factual advice isn't trolling.

Learn to use the tools you have properly is the message. That isn't negative its a fact. The OP doesn't know how to use the tools he has if he can't achieve APSC DOF with a GH camera. Comments that clients remark he doesn't get a look like kids on youtube with a T3i prove he doesn't know how to use his tools properly.
 
gutterball321 said:
It's not just depth if field, owning a gh2 for 2 years then a gh3, I used a friends 5d mark ii to mix cams for a short film and the 5d looked WAY more professional. Maybe I'd have to go full frame and the 70d wouldn't get this same look.
Click to expand...

What is it that looks more professional? Please breakdown the image aspects and we can help you learn to achieve it.


The Speedbooster is a godsend for M4/3 adds to why it is one of the most flexible systems out there to get different types of looks.
 
We routinely cut between different cameras depending on the need, including a Red Epic, AF100, C300, 5DmkIII, GH2, F3, and a few others, and 99.9% of the clients can not tell which footage is from which camera.
 
here are 2 ss of the same scene. I filmed them both and had been using my GH3 for a long time and it was the first time I had ever touched a 5dmii. I used the olymput 45mm 1.8 lens on the gh3 and the $100 50mm 1.8 lens on the 5d. Both were set to custom white balance set at the same time on the same white board. The gh3 doesnt do as good with hot spots, i know the gh3 is over exposed but even on other shots parts of the shot were blown out while the subject was correct, with the 5d it kept the hotspots under control with better color and better depth of field too (all on my first time touching the camera).

5d footage.jpggh3ss.jpg
 

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What aperture was the Oly 45 at? What aperture was the Canon 50mm set at?

Looks to me like your focus is off on the GH3 shot. That is a crisp lens and the focus plane looks to be on the woods in the background not on the actors face.
 
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