Well . . . some more Sully Sullenberger with that assault on the Colony!
Battlestar Galactica
- Thread starter David Jimerson
- Start date
Batutta
Major Contributor
Wow. The first hour and 15 minutes was insanely awesome, everything I wanted the finale to be. From the start of the battle to the end I had a permanent nerd boner. The last 45 minutes, I'm still chewing over it. I can't say it's unsatisfying, I just thought, maybe they'd do something a little more clever and less on the nose. They ended it the way many people have speculated they would, and it just seemed kind of obvious to go there. But damnit, I loved seeing the fleet riding off into the sun with that echo of the original fanfare playing. And I'm sure Starbuck's resolution will leave people howling in frustration. It's been a great ride. Glad I stayed until the end.
Nektonic
Veteran
I loved it. Lots of stuff to really focus on during a second viewing, but from my first viewing I felt it was totally satisfying. The end is one of those types that you have to just see. If someone would've told me about it, or if I would've read a summary online I'd have thought it sounded stupid. I won't spoil it for anyone, but it ties into them finding the nuked Earth in the season four midpoint. They really threw me for a loop.
Starbuck's resolution worked for me, as well as all the other characters and their resolutions. The show really embraced the fact that there was a higher power guiding them, and seeing how it all worked out I am fine with that. Baltar's and Six's arcs really amazed me as well. I was worried about that one. Also, a lot of the misgivings I had with some of the middle chapters of the last ten episodes don't seem so much of a problem anymore after the finale.
One thing I feel now for sure, is that BSG is the myth of the decade. I have to admit that this series finale topped even The Return of the King for me. Those are massive shoes to fill in my book. If season four of Battlestar doesn't get honored in some way come Emmy time, well I won't be surprised, but I feel it really deserves it. They attempted such an epic and complex mixture of elements for this finale. All the Caprica flashbacks, present day stuff, massive battle siege, and resolution to it all really just came together beautifully.
Also, the previews for Caprica and Stargate Universe have me pretty excited too. I'm glad that they've got some new stuff to make up for the absence of BSG. I'm really going to miss the old bucket and her crew.
Starbuck's resolution worked for me, as well as all the other characters and their resolutions. The show really embraced the fact that there was a higher power guiding them, and seeing how it all worked out I am fine with that. Baltar's and Six's arcs really amazed me as well. I was worried about that one. Also, a lot of the misgivings I had with some of the middle chapters of the last ten episodes don't seem so much of a problem anymore after the finale.
One thing I feel now for sure, is that BSG is the myth of the decade. I have to admit that this series finale topped even The Return of the King for me. Those are massive shoes to fill in my book. If season four of Battlestar doesn't get honored in some way come Emmy time, well I won't be surprised, but I feel it really deserves it. They attempted such an epic and complex mixture of elements for this finale. All the Caprica flashbacks, present day stuff, massive battle siege, and resolution to it all really just came together beautifully.
Also, the previews for Caprica and Stargate Universe have me pretty excited too. I'm glad that they've got some new stuff to make up for the absence of BSG. I'm really going to miss the old bucket and her crew.
Batutta
Major Contributor
Yeah, I think it works, but I am a little annoyed that everyone seems to be projecting their own religious beliefs onto this revelation. I suppose it's easy to do when Baltar starts calling his visions angels, but what else would he call them. That's what any advanced being would seem like to an inferior civilization. Later, in-head Baltar made it clear that God was not really "God", as he said "he doesn't really like to be called that". Another key line of dialogue is when in-head Caprica said "repeat an algorithm long enough and something interesting is bound to turn up." That seems to suggest the entire universe is an artificial or virtual construct created by an outside intelligence ("God") either for its own amusement, or for scientific illumination, and he/it uses the in-head "angels" to help guide things along at key intervals. Recall they told Gaius and Six that, "their lives from now on will be less eventful". Also, it's the only explanation for Starbuck's ressurection. She was duped and put back into action by the powers that be because she still had a role to fulfill, and when it was done, she vanished. Anyway, Ron Moore's solution to all the questions of the show basically boils down to "God did it.", which is either a single stroke of genius or a total cop out, depending on your point of view...From another perspective, my wife thought the finale was a bit of a letdown, but she basically watches it for the soap opera, and the fact that Apollo doesn't end up with Starbuck teed her off. The only part of the finale I downright hated was the little robot montage at the end. Way too on the nose underlining of the theme.
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There's probably a good 40% of questions raised but left unanswered, but in all reality, they did a much better job than I was expecting. The bit at the end did have a bit of a Matrix-y vibe to it which sorta saps the drama out of the whole thing, as though there were never any real stakes, just someone's science fair project.
Batutta
Major Contributor
I guess the original BSG had a similar story element of highly advanced beings overseeing and interfering with human history reminiscent of what the new show does--
The Seraphs (singular: Seraph) were an alien race in the original Battlestar Galactica series from 1978/79 and its spinoff series, Galactica 1980. They were never expressly referred to by name in the series, and were called "Seraphs" in the scripts for the episodes in which they appear, as well as in the mid-90's Galactica comic book series. They may or may not be part of the current re-imagined series, though the appearance of the "Final Five" Cylons in several third-season episodes was a deliberate attempt to approximate their appearance.
The Seraphs were a noncorporeal race of sentients who first show up in the two-part episode "War of the Gods," when they take a largely unexplained interest in the well-being of the humans in the Rag-Tag Fleet. They show up again at the conclusion of the "Terra" story arc ("Greetings from Earth," "Baltar's Escape", and "Experiment in Terra") where their representative, "John" assists Captain Apollo on a mission which ultimately proves of little worth to the Galactica, but which saves the lives of all the humans on the planet Terra. They next showed up in the Galactica 1980 episode "The Return of Starbuck" which explained the origins of the mysterious Doctor Zee (himself all or partially Seraph). They were also to figure heavily in the episode, "Wheel of Fire" which was in preproduction when the series was cancelled.
For all intents and purposes, the Seraphs are wingless angels, traveling about in a large spacecraft most commonly referred to as the Ship of Lights. They appear roughly humanoid in appearance (Though their faces are always veiled), but when Starbuck attempts to touch one, his hand goes through its body as though it were a hologram. It is later revealed in "Experiment in Terra" that they can take on a normal human form when called upon to do so, as the Seraph "John" appears perfectly unremarkable in that episode.
When asked about their origins, the Seraphs claimed to have been more traditional beings in their remote past, but that they evolved to their present state, "As you now are, we once were; as we now are you may yet become." This statement (which echoes some doctrines of Mormonism, from which the Colonials' Kobolist religion often draws inspiration) may mean the Seraph species evolved from Homo Sapiens in specific, or if they may simply be referring to corporeal life in general.
Commander Adama, who is quite knowledgeable in religious matters, quickly realizes that the Seraphs are the same angelic "Beings of Light" mentioned in "The Book of the Word," the dominant Colonial Scripture, and that these beings have - again for undisclosed reasons - played a part in human (or at least Colonial) society. As the series progressed, and the Cylons became a more distant threat to the survival of the Colonial Refugees, the Galactica and its fleet blundered into the midst of some kind of supernatural war between the forces of Good and the forces of Evil, which appears to have been using lesser beings (such as humans and Cylons) as pawns. The forces of Evil (presumably another group of Seraphs, though this is not explicitly made clear) were revealed to have meddled with the Cylons 1000 years earlier, and the voice of the Cylon Imperious Leader was based on a recording of an evil Seraph who had visited them a millennium earlier. In the Galactica 1980 series, the Seraphs were still apparently meddling in human history, as seen in the "Return of Starbuck" episode, and the script for the unfilmed episode "Wheel of Fire" seems to imply that the Seraphs are the same beings who appear as Angels in Judeo/Christian/Islamic scripture.
In the re-imagined series episode "The Ties That Bind", Starbuck paints what appears to be Ships of Light on the ceiling over her bunk.
The Seraphs (singular: Seraph) were an alien race in the original Battlestar Galactica series from 1978/79 and its spinoff series, Galactica 1980. They were never expressly referred to by name in the series, and were called "Seraphs" in the scripts for the episodes in which they appear, as well as in the mid-90's Galactica comic book series. They may or may not be part of the current re-imagined series, though the appearance of the "Final Five" Cylons in several third-season episodes was a deliberate attempt to approximate their appearance.
The Seraphs were a noncorporeal race of sentients who first show up in the two-part episode "War of the Gods," when they take a largely unexplained interest in the well-being of the humans in the Rag-Tag Fleet. They show up again at the conclusion of the "Terra" story arc ("Greetings from Earth," "Baltar's Escape", and "Experiment in Terra") where their representative, "John" assists Captain Apollo on a mission which ultimately proves of little worth to the Galactica, but which saves the lives of all the humans on the planet Terra. They next showed up in the Galactica 1980 episode "The Return of Starbuck" which explained the origins of the mysterious Doctor Zee (himself all or partially Seraph). They were also to figure heavily in the episode, "Wheel of Fire" which was in preproduction when the series was cancelled.
For all intents and purposes, the Seraphs are wingless angels, traveling about in a large spacecraft most commonly referred to as the Ship of Lights. They appear roughly humanoid in appearance (Though their faces are always veiled), but when Starbuck attempts to touch one, his hand goes through its body as though it were a hologram. It is later revealed in "Experiment in Terra" that they can take on a normal human form when called upon to do so, as the Seraph "John" appears perfectly unremarkable in that episode.
When asked about their origins, the Seraphs claimed to have been more traditional beings in their remote past, but that they evolved to their present state, "As you now are, we once were; as we now are you may yet become." This statement (which echoes some doctrines of Mormonism, from which the Colonials' Kobolist religion often draws inspiration) may mean the Seraph species evolved from Homo Sapiens in specific, or if they may simply be referring to corporeal life in general.
Commander Adama, who is quite knowledgeable in religious matters, quickly realizes that the Seraphs are the same angelic "Beings of Light" mentioned in "The Book of the Word," the dominant Colonial Scripture, and that these beings have - again for undisclosed reasons - played a part in human (or at least Colonial) society. As the series progressed, and the Cylons became a more distant threat to the survival of the Colonial Refugees, the Galactica and its fleet blundered into the midst of some kind of supernatural war between the forces of Good and the forces of Evil, which appears to have been using lesser beings (such as humans and Cylons) as pawns. The forces of Evil (presumably another group of Seraphs, though this is not explicitly made clear) were revealed to have meddled with the Cylons 1000 years earlier, and the voice of the Cylon Imperious Leader was based on a recording of an evil Seraph who had visited them a millennium earlier. In the Galactica 1980 series, the Seraphs were still apparently meddling in human history, as seen in the "Return of Starbuck" episode, and the script for the unfilmed episode "Wheel of Fire" seems to imply that the Seraphs are the same beings who appear as Angels in Judeo/Christian/Islamic scripture.
In the re-imagined series episode "The Ties That Bind", Starbuck paints what appears to be Ships of Light on the ceiling over her bunk.
Mark Harris
Pain in the ass
No matter what your point of view, from a dramatic point of view, it is lame. They pulled a frackin' St. Elsewhere. Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.
Mark Harris
Pain in the ass
I dunno Dave, I'm pretty sure even you and I could drive a starship into a wall...
ullanta
Veteran
I don't know if it was the same for everyone in all markets... but the ending here on Time-Warner Cable in the LA area was pretty funny - pretty ironic. Almost every commercial break here had an ad specifically for the Navy's new unmanned military vehicles (read: killer robots). Immediately after the final segment with the moral of hope and the montage of current humanoid robots, the Navy ad played again. Fascinating!
Nektonic
Veteran
My brother and I noticed it as well. I can't remember how many times the Navy commercial played, but the most rememberable time was when it was the first or second commercial shown right after the final shots of the real robots.
Although our space program is nowhere near what the Colonials have with theirs. Looks like it will be The Terminator or The Matrix for us after all.
Batutta
Major Contributor
I wouldn't go that far. They did lay the groundwork for this ending. All the way back to Season One the vision in Baltar's head said she was an Angel from god. I guess we should have taken her word for it.
Nektonic
Veteran
A couple things that I didn't catch or register right away, but thought of the next day after seeing Daybreak part 2:
-----------------------MAJOR SPOILERS-------------------------------
1) When Adama and Roslin lift off in the Raptor. Roslin looks out the side of the cockpit at Lee and Starbuck, and puts her hand on the glass, exactly like Boomer did in the miniseries when she left Helo on Caprica with all the refugees.
2) A couple minor plot holes. In season 2, when Adama, Roslin, Starbuck, and Apollo open the Tomb of Athena on Kobol, they see a projection of what each constellation of the 12 colonies would look like if standing on Earth. Was that the nuked Earth, or our Earth?
2.5) Near the end of Daybreak part 2, the final five mind meld by putting their hands in the water of the containment tank that Hybrid Anders is in. Why didn't they do this before?
3) This is a minor nitpick, but after Adama and Roslin's Raptor is gone, Lee and Starbuck are standing in the field and have their final farewell. I wish that somehow Leoben could've been there too, or they should've had an earlier scene with him and Starbuck to resolve their relationship.
-----------------------MAJOR SPOILERS-------------------------------
1) When Adama and Roslin lift off in the Raptor. Roslin looks out the side of the cockpit at Lee and Starbuck, and puts her hand on the glass, exactly like Boomer did in the miniseries when she left Helo on Caprica with all the refugees.
2) A couple minor plot holes. In season 2, when Adama, Roslin, Starbuck, and Apollo open the Tomb of Athena on Kobol, they see a projection of what each constellation of the 12 colonies would look like if standing on Earth. Was that the nuked Earth, or our Earth?
2.5) Near the end of Daybreak part 2, the final five mind meld by putting their hands in the water of the containment tank that Hybrid Anders is in. Why didn't they do this before?
3) This is a minor nitpick, but after Adama and Roslin's Raptor is gone, Lee and Starbuck are standing in the field and have their final farewell. I wish that somehow Leoben could've been there too, or they should've had an earlier scene with him and Starbuck to resolve their relationship.
ullanta
Veteran
Well, this sharing led to one of them killing another one... I think if nothing else that the "privacy" issue stopped them. Also, they didn't have need before... IIRC, each had only a part of "resurrection" and they needed this melding to transfer the whole thing.
Nektonic
Veteran
That makes sense, but it seems like they could've still done it earlier if only to find out more answers about their past and maybe to help them figure out what to do next (as in before the attack on the Cylon starbase). Although maybe Ellen told them more about their past after her resurrection and escape from Cavil, but the writers decided to not show it to the audience. It could also be that they've saved some of this for the upcoming movie The Plan.
Either way, it's not a big deal. I won't lose any sleep over it. Just something I thought about when reviewing all the details of the finale.
Interesting post on the Seraphs Batutta. I'm not too familiar with the original series except for the 3 hour pilot, and must confess that I've tried to watch it beyond that point and I just couldn't take it. I've read up a little on the old series though, and it seems that Ron Moore has incorporated a lot more than I would have thought: the Pegasus arc, a disappearance and return of Starbuck, and the overall religious/spiritual elements. I've recently discovered that the original series is on Hulu now. I'll have to give it another try.
One final thing they never covered, how many Earth natives will Hot Dog frak?
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pmark23
Veteran
In MY ending (which I started formulating after the first season), Baltar is a post-human who has evolved so far (so far that he's likely the last of his kind) that he controls time and space, and has been playing with the past (going so far as to actually be involved in it as a player) as a game, and perhaps to redo mistakes or as a sort of atonement.
I thought that was a bit much, but -- to much shock -- the final scene of the finale seems to point that way. What do you think? The final-five were post-humans -- what if that were taken even further?
(ps. Batutta, that was a mastery of nerdom.)
I thought that was a bit much, but -- to much shock -- the final scene of the finale seems to point that way. What do you think? The final-five were post-humans -- what if that were taken even further?
(ps. Batutta, that was a mastery of nerdom.)
Batutta
Major Contributor
It's an interesting theory...The more I think about it, the more I think nobody should be surprised about the way BSG turned out. The original and new series has always been thick which allusions to Greek Mythology, just look at all the names, and Greek myth was always centered around the idea of Gods manipulating human affairs from an omnipotent vantage point. If Ron Moore made a mistake it was that he only made this idea clear in the last episode of the the entire show and left it so wide open for speculation.
Rodney V. Smith
DVXFest Promo Guru
Mistake? I think it allowed the series to be taken more seriously without any of the baggage that overt religion brings to the table. By not going head-on and challenging or agreeing with people's beliefs Ron Moore certainly kept a much wider audience and left it open to their own interpretations. It's a win, win situation no matter how you look at it as the series served to entertain and not preach at us. The moment any film starts to preach ONE message that's when the line is crossed and people will go up in arms about one point or the other.
The intent was always not just to entertain, but to provoke thought.
Rodney V. Smith
DVXFest Promo Guru
agreed, but also to keep viewers. if people aren't watching, then there's no thinking to be had.
Batutta
Major Contributor
But I think if you leave it so open for speculation, IT DOES become about other people's religious beliefs. If it was clear for certain that the events in BSG were being manipulated by a superior race or a singular superior being, and that being was made plausible in some way (say a post human being of pure energy or something), it wouldn't be about some nebulous God figure, just a more advanced civilization.