Battle of the Sub $3K 4K's. AX100 v the BMC4K.

dustylense

dustylense

Veteran
I posted this over at BMCuser and thought you guys would be interested in seeing this.

A while back I posted a test of the BMC4K at a Planes of Fame air museum. I pick this place because I like visiting the museum and also because to the difficult lighting they have and copious amounts of texture there.

So I went back to test another camera. This time I took the consumer Sony FDR-AX100 and I specifically took some shots that were taken previously with the BMC4K. Well here is the result and I was quite shocked.

Before we get into a "this camera is better than that camera" let's state the obvious. The BMC4K is the stronger camera. Codec and global shutter alone makes it so. But while you watch this keep in mind that a consumer codec is going up against ProRes HQ 10bit 422. It shouldn't even be a race! But the results were in fact better than I expected.

While shooting with the AX100 I made sure to film some scenes that I had in mind with the BMC4K. Each plane or scene is filmed with each camera. And without starting from scratch I copied some of the BMC4K shots from my earlier video into the new timeline and graded the AX100 to the BMC4K (some with care and some with less care). Basically, the first scene is where I spent more care matching so concentrate on those shots most. That room is VERY dark and honestly the BMC4k was pushed to its limits shooting at 400 with a 360degree shutter.

Here is the video: (do yourself a favor and view it like a human being and not get nose grease all over your monitor. Lean back. But I invite you to inspect closer if you wish).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCH5WZ6KlNI

Take a stab and tell me which camera was used on some of the shots. Some are easy and some aren't. But pay most attention to the first scene.

Like I said, the BMC4K is the stronger camera. It's the camera I would choose for more serious filming. But after this I see lots of potential use personally for the AX100. Stealing shots where the BMC4K sticks out like a sore thumb where as the AX100 is a handycam. I really didn't think the AX100 would pull off the first scene of this video. Especially grading it to the BMC4K and it's codec. The AX100 does have a nasty and I mean NASTY rolling shutter. This camera really only shines in shots with little movement or locked off. It's a HandyCam and the menus are just like any HandyCam. Scene profiles like beach, fireworks, sunset, snow. No control over setting saturation or sharpness levels. HandyCam!

I will reveal this though. I had to UN-sharpen the AX100. Thats right! It was TOO sharp.

Anyhow, hope you enjoyed my little battle of the 4K for under $3K. I think I'll keep the AX100 as it fits in my glove box.
 
Great comparison Chris, thanks. I'm going to assume that virtually every clip that appeared sharper was the AX100. I own one so I think I can recognize its signature.

The firs clip was really interesting as were your comments about how surprisingly well the AX100 graded, but I found the comparison at about the 1 minute mark quite revealing. If you look at the propeller, the writing is much more readable on the AX100 than the BM. This kind of difference is noted in most of the A/Bs despite the difference in framing in many of them.

Fun stuff though...particularly your comment about not getting your screen greasy by rubbing your nose against the screen. I am always amazed at how some insist on pixel peeping one frame grab from a moving video and then proclaiming they've found a fault with the camera.
 
Wrong Ian. I had to De-sharpen the Sony. The Sony is sharper but that has to do with its Zeiss lens and maybe some in cam processing.
 
The sharpness of the AX100 is exactly what I like about it because it's real, not artificial; i.e. you can read street signs in the far distance. For landscape shooters the AX100 is a dream come true.
 
Christopher,

Initially was distracted by the interesting subjects, but believe the sharper clips are AX100.

Thanks for the comparison.
 
Chris, beautiful shots in both subject matter and results.

Looking at the specs I was surprised to see a 1" sensor. I know on the Z100 the Sony 1/2.3" sensor is really masked off to 1/3" and the excess used for noise suppression masking. How is that 1" sensor AX100 sensor for DOF control? Is it fully utilized? Or does it seem like a 2/3" sensor camera (which isn't necessarily a bad thing.)

Ian-T, kind of takes us back to the HV20 days, doesn't it.
 
Nice Chris, what lens/fstop did you use on the bmc?

Ever since the af100, the whole low bitrate misconception has been blown out of the water. The ax100 is just further proof of that. Unless of course you start talking high motion/grading, etc... But yea, mpeg4 is a milestone codec which has been impressive as heck despite many people's claims that it should only be used for final delivery. Can't wait to see cameras start shooting 265
 
I don't remember What apertures I was using. But what I will say is that I think it's a shame that the Sony holds its own against the black magic design 4k. And fact I'm not using the black magic design much because of the fixed pattern noise. I'm holding out to see if black magic design fixes it with the firmware update. Although the Sony has limited control with color profiles it's a very good camera and a very good lens. Almost perfect for running around and grabbing shots. While it's not the perfect camera I have been quite impressed with most of the footage that I have shot with the Sony. I'm not too concerned with the rolling shutter because I typically don't try to film dragonflies.
 
I went to get some stuff from Best Buy today and they happened to have the AX100 on display. Seemed like a really great camera with manual controls and a very clear image. It looked pretty cinematic when zoomed in, more so than the old video camera days like my old Canon HV20. I do second it looking very sharp though but that can be more or less chalked up to the different sensor size and, of course, the difference between fixed and interchangeable lenses. For stock footage and quick grab stuff, I can definitely see using the AX100 over an interchangeable lens camera or a 4K cell phone. That's a shame to hear about fixed pattern noise with the BMCC 4K but, for me, the codec differences and the interchangeable lens vs. fixed choice still gives me pause, especially when relatively speaking the price difference isn't that much. This is a good test though and, even though we professionals have known about 4K+ video for years, it just shows how quickly the 4K video landscape is becoming mainstream. Now, if they could just add 4K to an RX100 style pocket camera. ;)
 
I don't know that the fixed lens of the AX-100 is really a handicap. It's 29 to 348mm equivelent, which will cover about 90% of your shots. I'm thinking that adding a .40 wide adapter and 2x tele adapter and you can cover everything. That would take you from 11.6mm to 696mm. You do have a little light loss, but 696mm for outdoor animal shots in such a portable package, Great! This is one great little package. Even though you might need to blur a little in post on occasion.
 
The fixed lens on the AX100 is really something quite remarkable. I bought the camera so that it can be ready at all times for that unexpected moment were all you need to do is remove it from the bag and you're ready. The camera does that very well.
 
Does the 1 inch sensor on the AX100 really allow for noticeably shallower depth of field as compared to 1/2 inch or 1/3 inch camcorders, or is it not that much a difference?

There is no mention of a 720p 120fps mode in the specs, but I have seen example videos of it online - so there *is* 120fps @ 720p, right?

I've read that 4K downscaled to 1080p is sharper than the 1080 mode on the camera - does that refer to downscaled in the camera or in post?


Thanks for any info!
 
dustylense said:
The fixed lens on the AX100 is really something quite remarkable. I bought the camera so that it can be ready at all times for that unexpected moment were all you need to do is remove it from the bag and you're ready. The camera does that very well.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the off topic but I have a question. If I remember correctly you had a canon XF100. How would you compare it to the AX100. Im thinking to sell my XF100 and buy the AX100. Anyway my primary cameras (I shoot weddings) are Canon DSLRs (usually a 6D+70D and I only use the XF100 locked on a tripod for just a general cut and sound (one channel shotgun mic, another channel wireles mic). So I was thinking to buy the AX100+xlr adapter to do the job instead of the XF100 and also having the benefit of croping nice from the 4K footage. Smaller size is also a bonus. Do you think there is anything I would miss from the XF100?
Thanks in advance!
 
ddixon said:
Does the 1 inch sensor on the AX100 really allow for noticeably shallower depth of field as compared to 1/2 inch or 1/3 inch camcorders, or is it not that much a difference?
Click to expand...

A one inch sensor is double the 1/2' and triple the 1/3" (obviously), so yes it does make a serious DOF difference. S35 is ~1 and 3/8". Of course, the F stop, distance and lens length all affect the DOF perception in the image. But short answer, heck yeah!
 
Last edited:
ddixon said:
There is no mention of a 720p 120fps mode in the specs, but I have seen example videos of it online - so there *is* 120fps @ 720p, right?

I've read that 4K downscaled to 1080p is sharper than the 1080 mode on the camera - does that refer to downscaled in the camera or in post?


Thanks for any info!
Click to expand...

Yes, downscaled 4K is not only considerably sharper than the 1080 mode in the AX100, but considerably sharper than any 1080p camera you're likely to use.

There is no 720p mode in the camera, so anything you've seen in that regard was done in post.
 
Ken7 said:
Yes, downscaled 4K is not only considerably sharper than the 1080 mode in the AX100, but considerably sharper than any 1080p camera you're likely to use.

There is no 720p mode in the camera, so anything you've seen in that regard was done in post.
Click to expand...

Sure about that :) ?
According to the specs it has a 720p mp4 mode and a 120fps 720p xvacs mode.
Its mentioned in the eight paragraph here, next to the picture of the horse,
http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/products/j4it/feature.html?contentsTop=1

Here is an example video.

 
Last edited:
^ You are absolutely correct. I totally forgot about the mp4 mode and their respective shooting modes. Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top