B-CAM for 150

G

ggrantly

Veteran
Hello Listers,

I know this might be an oxymoron, because to some folks, the 150 "IS A B-CAM".

I am considering the purchase of a second cam to compliment the HMC-150, potentialy replacing my DVX. I don't want a 2nd 150 and would prefer to spend a little less also. Cutting well would be important.

My work thus far has been a mixed bag, so versitility is key, I tend toward corporate, but would love to do documentery TV (tame stuff, I'm old). I often work alone, or with just one other person. I have several alternatives to capture audio.

Things I have considered:

HMC-40: same codec, same batteries, same memory, should cut best short of another 150, very compact for moving handheld or action, good image, similar function so less learning curve, less money even with the phantom audio box, gives some redundancy in case disaster strikes the A-Cam.
Downside: CMOS issues, not as good in low light, blah, blah.

5DMk2: I already own great Canon glass and do some photography also. Seems like this cam would add video versatility in a different way: DOF, lens versatility wide and long, sort of less conspicuous. And of course it is pretty great still cam too.
Downside: all the DSLR baggage, audio, CMOS issue, different memory-batts, new and maybe steep learning curve.

Personally I am torn. I'd like to hear what you would do for yourself to add a B-Cam to your HMC150 kit. Give me a different perspective.

Is there another cam I should be considering?

Or, I could just keep my DVX!

Thanks in advance,
Grant
 
If you don't need progressive, then a used HDC-SD1 might work. Three 1/4-inch CCD with pixel shift, OIS, AVCHD @ 13 Mbit/s, built like a tank. No image control options, no focus wheel. There is mic in, but no headphone out. There is zebra. Get one on eBay for $400 or less. Same sensor block is used in the HMC70, by the way. The small battery from the SD1 will work on the HMC150, but not the opposite.
 
Personally, I would get the HMC40 if I'm on a budget. The HMC150 will always edit best with another HMC150, but as long as you match the HMC150 to the HMC40 (since the latter has fewer scene file options) then it should edit together okay in adequate light. The HMC40, is not a low light champ like the 150.

If the Mark II image settings are anything like the 7D, it would need quite a bit of playing around to match up with the 150. Luckily, for an early shoot with the 7D and HMC150, things matched up pretty well using Neutral settings with low contrast and sharpness settings and with the HMC at Cinelike V.





I recently added Marvels Cine and Flat 10 (forgot the links I got them from) and need to do some more testing. To see if I can match it up with Cinelike D
 
Cranky,

I can't even imagine not having progressive.

Another consumer lower budget cam that came to mind the Canon Vixia cams. I was just reading about their ability to use a full function Lanc type controller and run a monitor. It might make a pretty good low budget crane cam or for some other remote control scenarios.

G
 
If you encounter low light, you will be sol with a hmc40...

Only really good B cam for the 150 is a 150. I have used 3 150's on a couple shots, these other options wouldn't have cut it... But, I feel you trying to find something as a cheaper option. I went with the T1i and not happy at all when mixing the 2. It just depends on what you are shooting, always is.
 
The HV30 mixed with the HMC to an extent. I had much more success with the HFS100 due to improved image quality as well as output format (full raster 1080p like the HMC). Though the HFS is actually sharper than the HMC, however has pretty inferior low light capability and needs a camera light to see anything in places like reception halls and the like.
 
I don't know which you should get.. but sell the dvx before more people start realizing how aged it is.

:bath:
 
I'm sort of thinking though the same process right now myself. All speculation here, but, I would go for a 7D (or 5D) for the versatility you mentioned, especially considering you already have lenses. The point about having difficulty matching the picture is a good one though. I suppose once you had it figured out though, it wouldn't be as hard? I'd be interested in hearing about other people's experiences in that regard.

I wouldn't worry about audio much - get the good stuff with the 150, and maybe throw a Rode VideoMic or similar on the DSLR for B-roll sound / syncing. And pretty much anything short of another 150 is going to be CMOS.

My two cents, anyways...

Gord
 
I've seen footage on here that showed what happens when you mix the HMC with the "7D I think" and I wouldn't do it myself. I'm going for the HMC 40 for a second cam. The DSLR's overheat when u shoot too long "as I've read" and I can take stills on the 40. get a 35mm adaptor for you cannon glass and you'll be at the head of the game.:kali:
 
Hello Listers,

What I would buy in a heartbeat:
A new Canon cam that combined the DSLR imaging scheme, using interchangeable EF glass, and normal video cam features like audio. Imagine a XL-Hxx with flash memory, improved codec, that used EF lenses.....at around $5k plus glass.

In any event, I guess I am leaning towards the HMC-40 because despite the possibilities, the whole DSLR thing seems to be a difficult process. I just want to shoot, edit, release and make $. The potential higher art form of DSLR images is appealing but the hassle factor seems pretty high and the equipment isn't mature just yet.
The HMC -40 also gives me a backup plan and used the same memory and bats

I was hoping to lure Barry out on this one, but he hasn't taken the bait just yet.....

Best Regards,
Grant
 
Well, your first post pretty much says it all. You seem to have a good grasp on exactly what the pluses and minuses are.

I think the HMC40 is an ideal companion for outdoors/well-lit stuff, but it's very challenging indoors.

I think the 7D is great for digi-cine or still-camera stuff, but I think it's not a suitable replacement for a video camera. If what you're shooting needs to be shot on a video camera, and you need video camera ergonomics/sound/recording times/autofocus, then the 7D would have pretty much nothing to offer. But if it's for specialized shots, inconspicuous stuff, sit-down interviews with a separate audio recorder, or something like that, then the 7D has a lot to recommend it.

If you need two cameras to cut together, you really want another 150.
 
Barry_Green said:
If you need two cameras to cut together, you really want another 150.
Click to expand...

This is the music I am facing, as I been saying. So - Saving up my pennies.

But, an easy alternative is to rent a few more. You need the cameras usually manned anyways. So I have done it a few times.
 
i've been shooting several 3-4cam interviews lately with the hmc150 as the main/center cam and would love to replace the other 2 cams with the hmc40.

if you're doing corporate stuff you're probably lighting and don't have to worry about low-light doc-style conditions.

i think the hmc40 would be the perfect companion, keeping your gear and workflow to a minimum.

my other 2 cams are a canon hv20 and hg10 and they just don't have that panny mojo to match up well with the 150. i'm hoping the 40 produces a cleaner image with the same great color of the 150....which is where the canons fall short even under studio lighting.
 
I really wrestled with this same question as well. I have a Canon HF-S10, and as good as it is for a small cam, I did not think it was a good enough match with my HMC150....so I broke down and just got a second 150.

It's nice to know I have a set up that will match on my 2 cam shoots. Much better than trying to mix and match different formats and all. I used to shoot with a Canon XHA1 as my B cam, and what a pain that was in post....

So I recommend spending the extra green and getting another 150. It'll really simplify your life in post.
 
Thanks for all of the responses.

This is a tough question. Two 150s is the right answer for a two cam shoot. But if you have two identical cams, you get the strengths of both but also the weaknesses of both for twice the price.

Grant
 
I'm currently thinking about this. I don't want an HMC-40, as I shoot mostly indoors with questionable lighting and clearly its not really a comparable camera for this purpose. I'm leaning towards a TM-300 (or 350 if I import), which has good low light. Anyone try to match these two?
 
Someone correct me if I am mistaken. I believe the sensor and guts of the TM300 is the same as the HMC40. With the 40, you get more manual control, better form factor, and with the add on module, much better audio potential.

Regardless, the sensors are the same size, so it probably won't be better than the HMC40 in low light.

Grant
 
Ridolph said:
I'm currently thinking about this. I don't want an HMC-40, as I shoot mostly indoors with questionable lighting and clearly its not really a comparable camera for this purpose. I'm leaning towards a TM-300 (or 350 if I import), which has good low light. Anyone try to match these two?
Click to expand...

I have both, the HMC150 and the TM-300. In well lit (like outdoor) situations, they match fairly well. The 300 has a little more peaking in the video, but that can be softened. In very low light the TM-300 can still make pictures, especially in the "candle light" mode. However, the video exhibits lots of noise, grain, and lag. In situations where there is enough light for the HMC-150, the TM-300 is still much more noisy and won't really "match". I bought a second HMC-150 because of that mis-match. The TM-300 is still a good camera in a very compact form factor with decent features, but it can't match up with the HMC-150 very well in low light situations.
 
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