lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com
Well-known member
Last time I checked micro P2 can only record up to AVC-I 50, not 100. So premium, non-micro P2 cards are still needed for higher end bit rates.
HPX250: AVC-Intra 100 1080p settings
- Thread starter ralphps2000
- Start date
ralphps2000
Member
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com
Well-known member
Look at 2nd paragraph. It states 50 Mb/s for micro P2 adaptor. 2013+ Micro P2 native camera models will benefit fr. the lower cost and higher 200 Mb/s.
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...2052157415&surfModel=Content04022012052157415
It also states to be used in emergency situations where you're out of P2 cards and can use the micro P2 adaptor w/ up to Class 10 SDHC cards.
The concern here is whether or not the current F series P2 card can handle Class 444. It can go up to 200 Mb/s. So I don't think 400 Mb/s is possible. Probably the to be released G-series that can handle 400 Mb/s. Many users likely will have the older E-series which I think can only go up to 100 Mb/s. I'm pretty sure those will be everywhere once the new AVC Ultra 200 cams are out. Users will get rid of their E-series and move to F-series. And E-series will be very cheap, probably 25-40% cheaper than the current F-series.
On a side note, I have yet to see with my own eyes any 1/3" camera can benefit fr Class 200 codec. So far with AVC-I 100, the limits clearly has reached. Mostly optical related fr. the stock KG lens. w/ the HPX-250. I'll stick to AVC-I 100 for a long while. Next generation HPX-250 cam got to have some serious optics to take advantage of the Class 200 codec. That will likely raise the price to $8-10K. Subjectively, 2/3" and larger sensor cams w/ premium grade lens will have a much better chance of taking full advantage of the AVC Class 200 codec.
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...2052157415&surfModel=Content04022012052157415
It also states to be used in emergency situations where you're out of P2 cards and can use the micro P2 adaptor w/ up to Class 10 SDHC cards.
The concern here is whether or not the current F series P2 card can handle Class 444. It can go up to 200 Mb/s. So I don't think 400 Mb/s is possible. Probably the to be released G-series that can handle 400 Mb/s. Many users likely will have the older E-series which I think can only go up to 100 Mb/s. I'm pretty sure those will be everywhere once the new AVC Ultra 200 cams are out. Users will get rid of their E-series and move to F-series. And E-series will be very cheap, probably 25-40% cheaper than the current F-series.
On a side note, I have yet to see with my own eyes any 1/3" camera can benefit fr Class 200 codec. So far with AVC-I 100, the limits clearly has reached. Mostly optical related fr. the stock KG lens. w/ the HPX-250. I'll stick to AVC-I 100 for a long while. Next generation HPX-250 cam got to have some serious optics to take advantage of the Class 200 codec. That will likely raise the price to $8-10K. Subjectively, 2/3" and larger sensor cams w/ premium grade lens will have a much better chance of taking full advantage of the AVC Class 200 codec.
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ralphps2000
Member
You're right. I think the HPX250 will be a very relevant camcorder for several more years. The newer models will probably be very expensive and not necessarily deliver a better image.
By the way, do you have any suggestions of getting around the limited storage space on a P2 card in the field? I want to shoot 100 mbps but don't have that many cards. Some say to bring a long portable hard drive but I'm sure the offload time will be pretty significant for 64 gb's worth of video and then that puts the camcorder out of operation. Would the P2 card reader transfer faster onto a laptop?
Thanks for any advice.
QUOTE=lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com;1986276768]Look at 2nd paragraph. It states 50 Mb/s for micro P2 adaptor. 2013+ Micro P2 native camera models will benefit fr. the lower cost and higher 200 Mb/s.
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...2052157415&surfModel=Content04022012052157415
It also states to be used in emergency situations where you're out of P2 cards and can use the micro P2 adaptor w/ up to Class 10 SDHC cards.
The concern here is whether or not the current F series P2 card can handle Class 444. It can go up to 200 Mb/s. So I don't think 400 Mb/s is possible. Probably the to be released G-series that can handle 400 Mb/s. Many users likely will have the older E-series which I think can only go up to 100 Mb/s. I'm pretty sure those will be everywhere once the new AVC Ultra 200 cams are out. Users will get rid of their E-series and move to F-series. And E-series will be very cheap, probably 25-40% cheaper than the current F-series.
On a side note, I have yet to see with my own eyes any 1/3" camera can benefit fr Class 200 codec. So far with AVC-I 100, the limits clearly has reached. Mostly optical related fr. the stock KG lens. w/ the HPX-250. I'll stick to AVC-I 100 for a long while. Next generation HPX-250 cam got to have some serious optics to take advantage of the Class 200 codec. That will likely raise the price to $8-10K. Subjectively, 2/3" and larger sensor cams w/ premium grade lens will have a much better chance of taking full advantage of the AVC Class 200 codec.[/QUOTE]
By the way, do you have any suggestions of getting around the limited storage space on a P2 card in the field? I want to shoot 100 mbps but don't have that many cards. Some say to bring a long portable hard drive but I'm sure the offload time will be pretty significant for 64 gb's worth of video and then that puts the camcorder out of operation. Would the P2 card reader transfer faster onto a laptop?
Thanks for any advice.
QUOTE=lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com;1986276768]Look at 2nd paragraph. It states 50 Mb/s for micro P2 adaptor. 2013+ Micro P2 native camera models will benefit fr. the lower cost and higher 200 Mb/s.
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...2052157415&surfModel=Content04022012052157415
It also states to be used in emergency situations where you're out of P2 cards and can use the micro P2 adaptor w/ up to Class 10 SDHC cards.
The concern here is whether or not the current F series P2 card can handle Class 444. It can go up to 200 Mb/s. So I don't think 400 Mb/s is possible. Probably the to be released G-series that can handle 400 Mb/s. Many users likely will have the older E-series which I think can only go up to 100 Mb/s. I'm pretty sure those will be everywhere once the new AVC Ultra 200 cams are out. Users will get rid of their E-series and move to F-series. And E-series will be very cheap, probably 25-40% cheaper than the current F-series.
On a side note, I have yet to see with my own eyes any 1/3" camera can benefit fr Class 200 codec. So far with AVC-I 100, the limits clearly has reached. Mostly optical related fr. the stock KG lens. w/ the HPX-250. I'll stick to AVC-I 100 for a long while. Next generation HPX-250 cam got to have some serious optics to take advantage of the Class 200 codec. That will likely raise the price to $8-10K. Subjectively, 2/3" and larger sensor cams w/ premium grade lens will have a much better chance of taking full advantage of the AVC Class 200 codec.[/QUOTE]
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com
Well-known member
P2 offloading can easily be summarized:
Light shooting - PCD2 via USB2. Slow but works. Roughly 45 min/64 Gb no verification.
Controlled shooting: HPX-250 via USB2. Almost same speed as PCD2 but can't shoot if need cam during P2 offloading.
Moderate shooting: AG-MSU10 and/or PCD-30 (3-slot USB3). Roughly 14 min/64 Gb no verification.
Heavy 4+ cam shooting: PCD-30 (3-slot), PCD-35 (5-slot). Mostly have to bring the full computer on location to offload.
With the AG-MSU10, you can get away with only 2-3 (64 Gb) P2 cards per camera and can reuse them all day as the MSU10 is a self-contained, hardwired, high speed, extremely mobile, and super easy to use. It draws about 12-14 w (depending if LCD is on or not) vs 25-28 w for the HPX-250. Battery life is excellent.
Or you can spend up to the stratosphere with buying dozen-hundred of P2 cards and not offload in the field, afraid that something would go wrong.
Light shooting - PCD2 via USB2. Slow but works. Roughly 45 min/64 Gb no verification.
Controlled shooting: HPX-250 via USB2. Almost same speed as PCD2 but can't shoot if need cam during P2 offloading.
Moderate shooting: AG-MSU10 and/or PCD-30 (3-slot USB3). Roughly 14 min/64 Gb no verification.
Heavy 4+ cam shooting: PCD-30 (3-slot), PCD-35 (5-slot). Mostly have to bring the full computer on location to offload.
With the AG-MSU10, you can get away with only 2-3 (64 Gb) P2 cards per camera and can reuse them all day as the MSU10 is a self-contained, hardwired, high speed, extremely mobile, and super easy to use. It draws about 12-14 w (depending if LCD is on or not) vs 25-28 w for the HPX-250. Battery life is excellent.
Or you can spend up to the stratosphere with buying dozen-hundred of P2 cards and not offload in the field, afraid that something would go wrong.
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rzr219
Well-known member
I will say one things about P2, I have never to date lost a single thing when removing or transferring and I am not too gentle at times. However with a SD card I have lost complete cards for no reason just gone, could have been static, cold I just don't know. No point to having a inexpensive extra card if you might lose your data when removed from the camera. Just my 2 cents worth, also I will be keeping what I have for many years. So I don't even bother with new tech till I am in need of new equipment otherwise you are always feeling like you made a bad decision because there will always be something new and better out there.
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com
Well-known member
It's a good buy. At $1350, I'd jump on it because brand new will cost you at least $2,500 w/ a 500 Gb HD and goes up to $3,500 for SSD. I'd get a 2nd MSU10, but prefer the PCD-30 3-slot P2 USB3 for different situations where I can pop in all 3 P2 cards and let it do it thing. Come back hours later and all done vs. having to manually put in every time. Good to have PCD-30, MSU10 for different applications.
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com
Well-known member
SDHC cards are indeed very small and can easily slip away. I simply put in my wallet immediately when done using or swapping them. Most of the times SDHC cards just slip away. It's so light that you don't really know it exists in the pant, shirt or jacket. If it has more mass like a quarter coin, then chance of loosing it is much lower.
ralphps2000
Member
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com
Well-known member
This is fr. my hardware prep tests performed several months ago when I got the MSU10. P2 cards where shot w/ HPX-250 w/ about 80-90 clips. The 2nd P2 card was shot w/ HPX3100 w/ PROXY (hardware option) and about 170-180 clips. All AVC-I 100.
NO VERIFY:
P2 - > INTERNAL hdd (Samsung 1 Tb): ~13.5 min (both cards)
P2 - > eSATA hdd (Samung 1 Tb): ~15 min. (both cards)
P2 - > USB 2 hdd (Samsung 1 Tb): ~44 min. (both cards)
WITH VERIFICATION:
P2 - > INTERNAL hdd (Samsung 1 Tb): ~44 min (both cards)
P2 - > eSATA hdd (Samung 1 Tb): ~48 min. (both cards)
P2 - > USB 2 hdd (Samsung 1 Tb): DIDN'T PERFORM TEST AS IT'S TOO SLOW (more than 50 min. AND WON'T EVER USE IT)
INT & eSATA are the fastest. The only reason why I use eSATA is because of me being a bit lazy and not wanting to remove the MXB10 int tray. It's also the logistics reason of wanting to intentionally format the INT hd to FAT and eSATA to Type S for my specific workflow. The INT is set as an insurance safety drive while the eSATA drive is where I take the drive to the studio perform a final archive copy via Shot Put Pro w/ MD5 verification. This is mostly final archive to 3.5" 3-4 Tb hdds. After all MD5 verified, I can reuse the 2.5" drives for the next shoot w/ full confident that all data are 100% bit by bit accurate. No crossing finger and worry about that 1% there's an error due to the SATA-USB2 bridge hardware error or any OS related error.
However, for wilderness shooting scenario, I'd bypass eSATA and get about 5-10 MXB10 trays filled w/ 1 Tb 2.5" hdds and swap it out. eSATA requires 5v bus power applied to the enclosure which you can simply power from any 3rd party device that outputs USB bus power. I always backup to 2 locations. Total time is roughly 30 min to copy to 2 places. Either way, the MSU10 is very flexible and you can plug in an USB2 port if eSATA bus power is not available on the enclosure, albeit longer copying time. Absolute peace of mind and can freely walk and move while it's copying. Didn't use SSD as it's too expensive. But at the high expense, you can get away with only copying to 1 location vs. 2 for traditional hdds and also jog and climb while it's copying. When a 1 Tb SSD is roughly $200, I'll definitely get it. But in 2013, a $90, 2.5" 1 Tb hdd is the most cost-effective.
It appears that the MSU10 doesn't care how many clips you have on the P2 nor how it's recorded. It's looks like it's performing a deep hardware level sector-by-sector copy, bypassing certain I/O in the upper software layer to achieve high transfer rate.
NO VERIFY:
P2 - > INTERNAL hdd (Samsung 1 Tb): ~13.5 min (both cards)
P2 - > eSATA hdd (Samung 1 Tb): ~15 min. (both cards)
P2 - > USB 2 hdd (Samsung 1 Tb): ~44 min. (both cards)
WITH VERIFICATION:
P2 - > INTERNAL hdd (Samsung 1 Tb): ~44 min (both cards)
P2 - > eSATA hdd (Samung 1 Tb): ~48 min. (both cards)
P2 - > USB 2 hdd (Samsung 1 Tb): DIDN'T PERFORM TEST AS IT'S TOO SLOW (more than 50 min. AND WON'T EVER USE IT)
INT & eSATA are the fastest. The only reason why I use eSATA is because of me being a bit lazy and not wanting to remove the MXB10 int tray. It's also the logistics reason of wanting to intentionally format the INT hd to FAT and eSATA to Type S for my specific workflow. The INT is set as an insurance safety drive while the eSATA drive is where I take the drive to the studio perform a final archive copy via Shot Put Pro w/ MD5 verification. This is mostly final archive to 3.5" 3-4 Tb hdds. After all MD5 verified, I can reuse the 2.5" drives for the next shoot w/ full confident that all data are 100% bit by bit accurate. No crossing finger and worry about that 1% there's an error due to the SATA-USB2 bridge hardware error or any OS related error.
However, for wilderness shooting scenario, I'd bypass eSATA and get about 5-10 MXB10 trays filled w/ 1 Tb 2.5" hdds and swap it out. eSATA requires 5v bus power applied to the enclosure which you can simply power from any 3rd party device that outputs USB bus power. I always backup to 2 locations. Total time is roughly 30 min to copy to 2 places. Either way, the MSU10 is very flexible and you can plug in an USB2 port if eSATA bus power is not available on the enclosure, albeit longer copying time. Absolute peace of mind and can freely walk and move while it's copying. Didn't use SSD as it's too expensive. But at the high expense, you can get away with only copying to 1 location vs. 2 for traditional hdds and also jog and climb while it's copying. When a 1 Tb SSD is roughly $200, I'll definitely get it. But in 2013, a $90, 2.5" 1 Tb hdd is the most cost-effective.
It appears that the MSU10 doesn't care how many clips you have on the P2 nor how it's recorded. It's looks like it's performing a deep hardware level sector-by-sector copy, bypassing certain I/O in the upper software layer to achieve high transfer rate.
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ralphps2000
Member
Thanks for that information. My computer was down for a couple of weeks so I couldn't reply. I did get the Msu10 and it is working great. Just wish P2 card prices would eventually drop. Everytime a new series (E to F) comes out, it seems the price goes up.