HPX250: AVC-Intra 100 1080p settings

R

ralphps2000

Member
I am new to the HPX250 and not having much experience with its formats, telecining, inverse telecining, 24p, 24 pn, etc. Question: With the HPX250 can you shoot in 1080p 30p, 24p, without having to process the footage outside the camcorder for editing?

Is the HPX250 an INTERLACED camcorder that has to be processed to become progressive? If so, is additional software needed, other than my CS6 Production Suite?

Ideally, I would like to shoot all my videos in progressive format but before I start, I would like to know what to expect when choosing STANDARD RECORDING 24 P, 30 P A, NATIVE RECORDING, etc.

If there is a website, web page that can explain all this, I would really appreciate someone directing me to it.

Thanks in advance!

Ralph
 
1. Yes, if you shoot in AVC-Intra or 720p. Even if you shoot in 1080/24p in DVCPRO-HD, most NLE software can properly strip out pulldown and treat it as the native progressive footage that it is.

2. Most definitely not.
 
HPX 250 Format

HPX 250 Format

Barry_Green said:
1. Yes, if you shoot in AVC-Intra or 720p. Even if you shoot in 1080/24p in DVCPRO-HD, most NLE software can properly strip out pulldown and treat it as the native progressive footage that it is.

2. Most definitely not.
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Thanks for the reponse.

If I don't want to record in 720p but want to in 1080p in AVC-Intra, will it be in 24p, 24pn, etc.? Will I have to do anything to the recording to edit it in ADOBE? Also, what format will record the best quality footage?
 
You can record 1080p in AVC-Intra in 24p, 25p, and 30p. All are native, no pulldown involved, no post hassles whatsoever. And AVC-Intra100 will provide the highest-quality recording.
 
Barry_Green said:
You can record 1080p in AVC-Intra in 24p, 25p, and 30p. All are native, no pulldown involved, no post hassles whatsoever. And AVC-Intra100 will provide the highest-quality recording.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I am confused by the HPX250 manual. It refers to 24P, 24PA, 24PN, etc. It also shows illustrations satying: Camera-recorder capture (1080/24P over 60i) 2:3 pull-down recording. Camera-recorder capture (1080/24N) 2:3 pull down recording. Camera-recorder capture (720/24PN) 2:3 pull down recording.


Also, it refers to STANDARD RECORDING (pull-down recording) and says 24P records with 2:3 pulldown and 30P (25P) records with 2:2 pulldown, and both record as 59:94i (50i). The camera-recorder can also handle video shot in the 24PA mode (2:3:3:2 advanced pulldown). NOTE THAT AVC-INTRA DOES NOT SUPPORT PULLDOWN RECORDING.

IT ALSO REFERS TO NATIVE RECORDING.

The statement on shooting in Progressive mode which really confuses me is: An editing system that supports 24PA (2:3:3:2 advanced pulldown) will enable editing with less quality loss than 24P (2:3 pulldown). Record at standard 24P if a 24PA compatible system will not be used.

It would be great to find some literature that explains the differences between 24P, 24PA, 24PN and WHY someone would choose to record in one rather than the other.

I'm confused. #)(%#)@#((#(##$!!
 
Do you have "The HPX Book"? It's about 280 pages of the most clear explanations I could give...

To simplify it: if you're shooting AVC-Intra, you will never have pulldown. AVC-Intra doesn't do pulldown, it records the individual frames discretely. Period. Over and done.

Now, the SDI output or the HDMI output may have pulldown, but the actual recording will not.

If you're shooting DVCPRO-HD 720pN, you will never have pulldown.

If you're shooting DVCPRO-HD 1080, then yes, there will be pulldown on 24P and 24PA. But those aren't an issue in AVC-Intra.

Basically, you should always shoot AVC-Intra unless you have some specific reason for needing DVCPRO-HD. AVC-Intra is a much better codec, it's higher resolution, it is 10-bit instead of 8-bit, and it avoids pulldown. Shoot AVC-I100 whenever you can and you will avoid all those problems.
 
I also have a 250 and use CS6, from what I have read on your questions all you will need to do it drop the footage into the computer and then double click on it and you are editing. No issues at all. It just works, it will even set up your timeline if you are not sure.
 
Thanks, I'll try it. One more issue: Do you notice that any hand movements on the camcorder body are picked up by the built-in microphone? I also notice that the bottom plate/part of the camcorder makes a hollow sound when you move your hands across it and this too gets picked up. Any suggestions on how to reduce the sounds made by handling the camcorder while recording?
 
i remember when i was first got it and moved it around.. makes a clicking noise and some random noise i was paranoid about... but really when you use it when doing your work it makes little to no noise (doesn't pick it up).. i run, jump and do all kinds of crazy things with it and no noise picked up...


ralphps2000 said:
Thanks, I'll try it. One more issue: Do you notice that any hand movements on the camcorder body are picked up by the built-in microphone? I also notice that the bottom plate/part of the camcorder makes a hollow sound when you move your hands across it and this too gets picked up. Any suggestions on how to reduce the sounds made by handling the camcorder while recording?
Click to expand...
 
You'll have to invest in 3rd party shot gun mic and pistol grip. There mount it on the HPX250's 3/8" or 1/4-20" screws. Dramatic difference in sound quality as you get wind protection, shock protection (depends on how serious you're) and a much better mic (providing that you spend decent amount on that particular shotgun). Other than that, the servo motors and lens is just below the HPX250's stereo mics. Very hard to not pick up as the camera is zoom'd in or out. I also have a short shotgun taken from 2/3" cam and those work OK because it's not far enough fr the HPX250's KG lens. There's still small servo noise but not as strong as the HPX250's int stereo mic. If budget permits, and strong desire to completely get rid of servo zoom noise on the HPX250, you'd probably want a Sanken CS-3 shotgun as it does an excellent job of side noise rejection. A true, highly directional shotgun mic that helps to remove unwanted sound. I love the CS-3 mic when I need to reject extraneous sound on noisy locations. The HPX250's mics serve as an OK background/ambient or ultimate backup track in case the shotgun mic has issues.
 
?orilla Shänks said:
i remember when i was first got it and moved it around.. makes a clicking noise and some random noise i was paranoid about... but really when you use it when doing your work it makes little to no noise (doesn't pick it up).. i run, jump and do all kinds of crazy things with it and no noise picked up...
Click to expand...

I noticed while recording that it even picks up some sounds of my hand moving when operating the zoom, but there was really little ambient sound at the time.
 
Do you recomment any particular pistol grip? Also, do you think the HPX25 is TOO BIG for hand held use? It seems the side display should have been mounted where JVC is nown mounting theirs-- on the handle-- that would make it easier to balance against your body.
 
Ergonomics wise, the HPX250 is much bigger than the original DVX100. However, I'm able to pretty much use only 1 hand to pickup fr. my waist to right eye. It has a well-designed right hand grip that's very comfortable to shoot. When I hold the grip, zoom rocker switch and start/stop buttons are very well placed for easy finger access. It's an art to control the camera by using the combination of your right hand and left hand to gently support it. After countless days of getting used to and real world shoot scenarios, I'd say I can get very decent results comparable to a shoulder mount 2/3" cam. Take full advantage of the viewfinder and LCD. They both are extremely useful and strategically located depending on how you hold the HPX-250. Once you master that, hand held rig is really not needed. I purchased the HPX-250 for the sole purpose of high mobility, small form factor guerrilla doc/event work at sensitive locations.

This once again changes if the HPX-250 is used in cold weather condition and the op is wearing thick gloves. At this point, the rec start red buttons in the grip area, cam on/off switch are much harder to control. Luckily, the zoom rocker is still very responsive when in extreme cold condition. There's a 2nd rec button on top of handle for the left hand. All other buttons (P2 playback for example) are just not well designed when the op is wearing glove. Keep that in mind.

I don't have any real world experience w/ JVC's latest generation cams. The last dismal experience was w/ the JVC HD-250, ~3 years ago. I probably will never use JVC product again.

I myself use the Rycote Windjammer system (http://www.rycote.com/products/full_windshield_kit/). It offers very powerful wind protection for all of my outdoor shoots since 2005. I don't hear any servo zoom noise or handling noise when the Sanken CS-3 is mounted via the Rycote Windjammer or the HPX-250's shotgun mount. As previously stated, that mic is highly directional and luckily the HPX-250's KG lens is parallel to the CS-3's pickup region. I can use this on the small HPX250 and all of Panasonic high end 2/3" cams. It's a bit costly but I don't have to upgrade every 3-5 years for a better product.
 
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Hpx250

Hpx250

What's your thoughts on what Panasonic might release in April. Do you think they will have something to replace the HPX250? I noticed its price is being dropped with incentives attached. Improved sensor? Lighter weight?



lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
Ergonomics wise, the HPX250 is much bigger than the original DVX100. However, I'm able to pretty much use only 1 hand to pickup fr. my waist to right eye. It has a well-designed right hand grip that's very comfortable to shoot. When I hold the grip, zoom rocker switch and start/stop buttons are very well placed for easy finger access. It's an art to control the camera by using the combination of your right hand and left hand to gently support it. After countless days of getting used to and real world shoot scenarios, I'd say I can get very decent results comparable to a shoulder mount 2/3" cam. Take full advantage of the viewfinder and LCD. They both are extremely useful and strategically located depending on how you hold the HPX-250. Once you master that, hand held rig is really not needed. I purchased the HPX-250 for the sole purpose of high mobility, small form factor guerrilla doc/event work at sensitive locations.

This once again changes if the HPX-250 is used in cold weather condition and the op is wearing thick gloves. At this point, the rec start red buttons in the grip area, cam on/off switch are much harder to control. Luckily, the zoom rocker is still very responsive when in extreme cold condition. There's a 2nd rec button on top of handle for the left hand. All other buttons (P2 playback for example) are just not well designed when the op is wearing glove. Keep that in mind.

I don't have any real world experience w/ JVC's latest generation cams. The last dismal experience was w/ the JVC HD-250, ~3 years ago. I probably will never use JVC product again.

I myself use the Rycote Windjammer system (http://www.rycote.com/products/full_windshield_kit/). It offers very powerful wind protection for all of my outdoor shoots since 2005. I don't hear any servo zoom noise or handling noise when the Sanken CS-3 is mounted via the Rycote Windjammer or the HPX-250's shotgun mount. As previously stated, that mic is highly directional and luckily the HPX-250's KG lens is parallel to the CS-3's pickup region. I can use this on the small HPX250 and all of Panasonic high end 2/3" cams. It's a bit costly but I don't have to upgrade every 3-5 years for a better product.
Click to expand...
 
Panasonic is just a bit slow when it comes to breakthrough technology. For example, AF-100 took a while for AF100A. But AF100A is not a major breakthrough in recording technology. Varicam 4K is in the works. That's a totally different class of cam and has an extra 0 to the final purchase price. But I suspect it won't be ready 2013 anyway.

For 1/3" class cam, HPX-250 -> HPX-255 w/ CCU already released last summer. Perhaps HPX-280 w/ AVC-Ultra 200 and/or micro P2 w/ LongG in one cam? LongG codec will be a great relief for those who do long events and don't want the enormous AVC-I 100 expense (P2 cards, huge data ~1 Gb/min). I probably would upgrade fr. the HPX-250 if there's a LongG codec on the new model. Definitely storage saving for super long-form documentary. All of the hard drive archival expenses over 1-2 years period will eventually pay for itself w/ the AVC LongG codec. It's like having AVCHD on the P2 cam but @ full 1920x1080 10-bit and a much lower file size (25 Mb/s). I don't like AVC-50 on HPX-250 as is 3/4 of 1920x1080 res. AVC-Intra 200 will be a big disappointment in 1/3" class of cam because the stock lens just can't resolve all of the fine details. I can clearly see the optical limits has reach w/ AVC-I 100 on the HPX-250. HPX-600 may be the spot light for a low-cost 2/3" cam w/ only a single CMOS vs. 3-ccds. There's a discernible picture quality (mostly color purity & overall quality) between HPX-600 & their premium 3000 series. I had the opportunity to to A/B/C comparison on the HPX-600 vs. HPX3100, 3700. The old saying you get what you pay for is true.
 
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ralphps2000 said:
Thanks, I'll try it. One more issue: Do you notice that any hand movements on the camcorder body are picked up by the built-in microphone? I also notice that the bottom plate/part of the camcorder makes a hollow sound when you move your hands across it and this too gets picked up. Any suggestions on how to reduce the sounds made by handling the camcorder while recording?
Click to expand...


Well I agree you need a ext mic, I use one and dont notice any nosie, I use the onboard as backups. Also for carrying, I used this my last job and loved it , got great shots and never had to worry about my arm going dead.
 
Thanks,

I'm going to look into that monopod.

Also, based on the release date of the HPX250, would you purchase it today or wait for its replacement? The HPX250's price has been reduced, but is it still a bargain or will Panasonic's newer version be worth waiting for?




rzr219 said:
Well I agree you need a ext mic, I use one and dont notice any nosie, I use the onboard as backups. Also for carrying, I used this my last job and loved it , got great shots and never had to worry about my arm going dead.
Click to expand...
 
If you do lots of docs, delaying the purchase is not good as you'll miss out important footage. It'll probably be Fall-Winter of 2013 before Panasonic ships any upgrade to their HPX-250 series after NAB announcement (if there's any at all for the 250-255 cams). As stated earlier, AVC-I 100 is more than adequate for the HPX-250. The newer model probably can only add LongG, Proxy or streaming features. Will take 3-5 years for major breakthrough. Otherwise just gradual improvement on newer model. I don't see drastic improvement to the lens or 1/3" imager for under $5K. Or you can wait another 3-5 years for 4K workflow after the Varicam 4K makes it premiere and slowly 4K will make it to the $5-10K type of cam w/ limitations of course.
 
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I got mine early and got a free 64GB card and got the price down from my local dealer. So I am very happy, camera is sharp and solid. I would buy it today still, once price come down a bit more I am looking at a 2nd one so footage matches better in post.
 
Just wish the P2 cards were less expensive. I read somewhere that Panasonic is planning to make a P2card adapter to hold SD cards, but I don't know if you will be able to store 100 bit on it or not.
 
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