CacheMoneyVideo
Well-known member
Barry what do you think about AVC-HD camcorders? I know both Sony and Panasonic have cameras coming out. I know they will utilize MPEG4 H264. How is the picture quailty with a compressed HD codec?
Avc Hd
- Thread starter CacheMoneyVideo
- Start date
Do you have a link to any footage produced by the cameras?
Barry_Green
Moderator
I think AVC-HD is going to be a smash hit. I just don't care for any of the camcorders they've announced so far that use the format.
Sony and Panasonic jointly developed and sponsor the format, and in their press release they really kind of kicked HDV to the curb. I think they intend that this new format will replace HDV, same way DV replaced Hi-8. AVC-HD is tapeless, it's full-raster, it's uncompressed audio, and it's two to 2.5 times as efficient as MPEG-2.
However, it's not all solid gold; it's still a long-GOP codec at 4:2:0, so it will still have some of the same compromises HDV has. But hey, if someone's happy with HDV they should be thrilled with AVC-HD.
Only two problems with the format right now: no editing support (yet; Vegas will have it in the next four months) and no decent "prosumer" style cameras. The only cameras using the format so far are little consumer cams.
I also think the spinning-DVD approach is totally the wrong approach; I think Panasonic has the better idea with the SD memory cards, and Sony came out with a model that uses a hard disk, either of those seems like a better idea than recording to mini-DVD.
But I have no doubt this is the format of the future.
Sony and Panasonic jointly developed and sponsor the format, and in their press release they really kind of kicked HDV to the curb. I think they intend that this new format will replace HDV, same way DV replaced Hi-8. AVC-HD is tapeless, it's full-raster, it's uncompressed audio, and it's two to 2.5 times as efficient as MPEG-2.
However, it's not all solid gold; it's still a long-GOP codec at 4:2:0, so it will still have some of the same compromises HDV has. But hey, if someone's happy with HDV they should be thrilled with AVC-HD.
Only two problems with the format right now: no editing support (yet; Vegas will have it in the next four months) and no decent "prosumer" style cameras. The only cameras using the format so far are little consumer cams.
I also think the spinning-DVD approach is totally the wrong approach; I think Panasonic has the better idea with the SD memory cards, and Sony came out with a model that uses a hard disk, either of those seems like a better idea than recording to mini-DVD.
But I have no doubt this is the format of the future.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I think AVC-HD is going to be a smash hit. I just don't care for any of the camcorders they've announced so far that use the format.
Sony and Panasonic jointly developed and sponsor the format, and in their press release they really kind of kicked HDV to the curb. I think they intend that this new format will replace HDV, same way DV replaced Hi-8. AVC-HD is tapeless, it's full-raster, it's uncompressed audio, and it's two to 2.5 times as efficient as MPEG-2.
However, it's not all solid gold; it's still a long-GOP codec at 4:2:0, so it will still have some of the same compromises HDV has. But hey, if someone's happy with HDV they should be thrilled with AVC-HD.
Only two problems with the format right now: no editing support (yet; Vegas will have it in the next four months) and no decent "prosumer" style cameras. The only cameras using the format so far are little consumer cams.
I also think the spinning-DVD approach is totally the wrong approach; I think Panasonic has the better idea with the SD memory cards, and Sony came out with a model that uses a hard disk, either of those seems like a better idea than recording to mini-DVD.
But I have no doubt this is the format of the future.
Sony and Panasonic jointly developed and sponsor the format, and in their press release they really kind of kicked HDV to the curb. I think they intend that this new format will replace HDV, same way DV replaced Hi-8. AVC-HD is tapeless, it's full-raster, it's uncompressed audio, and it's two to 2.5 times as efficient as MPEG-2.
However, it's not all solid gold; it's still a long-GOP codec at 4:2:0, so it will still have some of the same compromises HDV has. But hey, if someone's happy with HDV they should be thrilled with AVC-HD.
Only two problems with the format right now: no editing support (yet; Vegas will have it in the next four months) and no decent "prosumer" style cameras. The only cameras using the format so far are little consumer cams.
I also think the spinning-DVD approach is totally the wrong approach; I think Panasonic has the better idea with the SD memory cards, and Sony came out with a model that uses a hard disk, either of those seems like a better idea than recording to mini-DVD.
But I have no doubt this is the format of the future.
MikeCurtis
Well-known member
CAN'T.
EDIT.
YET.
ANYWHERE.
...unless you capture a raw uncontrolled feed to uncompressed or another codec over analog or HDMI...and that defeats the whole purpose of shooting on a low cost camera, no?
EDIT.
YET.
ANYWHERE.
...unless you capture a raw uncontrolled feed to uncompressed or another codec over analog or HDMI...and that defeats the whole purpose of shooting on a low cost camera, no?
Actually, I think Sony has some basic editing software that understands AVCHD that they bundle with their cameras.
Anyway, even when real editing solutions become available, doing so will require considerably more horsepower than even HDV, which is already notoriously editing-unfriendly.
I think AVCHD is really just an acquisition and delivery format. Since AVCHD, HD-DVD and BluRay all utilize H.264, I think eventually the consumer market will rely on HD-DVD/BluRay recorders similar to the existing standalone DVD Recorders, allowing Uncle Bob to burn his Disneyland vacation trip onto a HD optical disk by connecting his AVCHD camera to the recorder.
Anyway, even when real editing solutions become available, doing so will require considerably more horsepower than even HDV, which is already notoriously editing-unfriendly.
I think AVCHD is really just an acquisition and delivery format. Since AVCHD, HD-DVD and BluRay all utilize H.264, I think eventually the consumer market will rely on HD-DVD/BluRay recorders similar to the existing standalone DVD Recorders, allowing Uncle Bob to burn his Disneyland vacation trip onto a HD optical disk by connecting his AVCHD camera to the recorder.
Barry_Green
Moderator
COULDN'T.
EDIT.
HDV.
FOR.
TWO.
YEARS.
Didn't stop HDV, did it?
Let's not be shortsighted here. How did you edit footage from the FX1 for the first 7 months it was out, before Apple and Avid brought out HDV support?
I mean, why is this even a problem? Right now there's not an AVC-HD camcorder anybody would want to shoot anything on. By the time a decent prosumer 3-chip 24P AVC-HD camcorder is released, there will likely be plenty of editing solutions. And I bet CineForm will have an intermediate codec out long before that proper prosumer camcorder is released.
And considering AVC-HD is sponsored by the two behemoth companies (Panasonic and Sony) who, combined, probably sell something like 80% of all camcorders sold, it's obvious that AVC-HD is the new "DV". Betting against AVC-HD is kind of like betting against "plastics." Or ignoring Horace Greeley when he said "Go West, young man."
And, again, Vegas will have support "in Spring 2007", and you can bet your buttcheeks that Panasonic is leaning on Apple to get support out quickly too.
And AVC-HD hardware acceleration is already being built into nVidia and ATI graphics cards, so editing may not be as bad as some fear. HDV native editing was miserable in its first iterations too. But things got better. They will for AVC-HD as well.
As far as blu-ray goes, if more than sixty people buy blu-ray players (so they're still in production ), you won't have to connect your AVC-HD camcorder to a recorder, you'll be able to pull the mini-DVD out of the camcorder and play it on the blu-ray player. AVC-HD media is supposed to be 100% blu-ray compatible.
EDIT.
HDV.
FOR.
TWO.
YEARS.
Didn't stop HDV, did it?
Let's not be shortsighted here. How did you edit footage from the FX1 for the first 7 months it was out, before Apple and Avid brought out HDV support?
I mean, why is this even a problem? Right now there's not an AVC-HD camcorder anybody would want to shoot anything on. By the time a decent prosumer 3-chip 24P AVC-HD camcorder is released, there will likely be plenty of editing solutions. And I bet CineForm will have an intermediate codec out long before that proper prosumer camcorder is released.
And considering AVC-HD is sponsored by the two behemoth companies (Panasonic and Sony) who, combined, probably sell something like 80% of all camcorders sold, it's obvious that AVC-HD is the new "DV". Betting against AVC-HD is kind of like betting against "plastics." Or ignoring Horace Greeley when he said "Go West, young man."
And, again, Vegas will have support "in Spring 2007", and you can bet your buttcheeks that Panasonic is leaning on Apple to get support out quickly too.
And AVC-HD hardware acceleration is already being built into nVidia and ATI graphics cards, so editing may not be as bad as some fear. HDV native editing was miserable in its first iterations too. But things got better. They will for AVC-HD as well.
As far as blu-ray goes, if more than sixty people buy blu-ray players (so they're still in production
), you won't have to connect your AVC-HD camcorder to a recorder, you'll be able to pull the mini-DVD out of the camcorder and play it on the blu-ray player. AVC-HD media is supposed to be 100% blu-ray compatible.