Avatar - James Cameron Returns! (Spoilers in thread, obviously!)

Chamber005 said:
Again, I supported Final Fantasy because of its progression of CGI animation. I was there opening night and I own the DVD. But BECAUSE of the animation people and critics rejected that movie out-of-hand whereas with this movie it's like they've all been brainwashed to bow down and give thanks.
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I didn't think Final Fantasy was all that great. Interesting story ideas, but it didn't engage me. The only similarity to Avatar is the whole living planet idea. Avatar's story is a retread of many ideas, yes, but it engaged me and that's the difference.
 
Batutta said:
I didn't think Final Fantasy was all that great. Interesting story ideas, but it didn't engage me. The only similarity to Avatar is the whole living planet idea. Avatar's story is a retread of many ideas, yes, but it engaged me and that's the difference.
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Hear, hear. There should be no comparison to Final Fantasy. Avatar's effects were seamless. To the point where I had to keep reminding myself that it was all CGI. Then again the lush impossible landscapes were a huge reminder of that.. but I was able to get lost in the entire world.
 
vnguyen972 said:
this is funny...
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I AGREE
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roflmao!!

"clone wars: Thundercats"
 
Rodney V. Smith said:
Hear, hear. There should be no comparison to Final Fantasy. Avatar's effects were seamless. To the point where I had to keep reminding myself that it was all CGI. Then again the lush impossible landscapes were a huge reminder of that.. but I was able to get lost in the entire world.
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WTF?

Final Fantasy was like more than TEN YEARS ago and they DEFINED all that we know of photo-realstic CGI animation. Of course Avatar can be compared. And from the previews, the comparison seems to be, "Eh, some minor improvements...after a decade...and 500 million dollars...huh."
 
Chamber005 said:
WTF?

Final Fantasy was like more than TEN YEARS ago and they DEFINED all that we know of photo-realstic CGI animation. Of course Avatar can be compared. And from the previews, the comparison seems to be, "Eh, some minor improvements...after a decade...and 500 million dollars...huh."
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If we're going to go down that route, might as well compare it to the original King Kong and stop motion animation.

It's a different movie. Period.

Avatar uses live action and CGI on the same stage. Final Fantasy was ALL CGI. Bland and boring CGI.
 
Chamber005 said:
WTF?

Final Fantasy was like more than TEN YEARS ago and they DEFINED all that we know of photo-realstic CGI animation. Of course Avatar can be compared. And from the previews, the comparison seems to be, "Eh, some minor improvements...after a decade...and 500 million dollars...huh."
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Sorry, FF was nowhere near photo real, and after just going back and looking at the trailer of it again, it is not that close to Avatar. Avatar didn't cross the bar of photorealism either but it passed the uncanny valley effect of FF. I never saw that as being the goal of Final Fantasy anyways, to fool you into thinking something is real. It was just really nice, more realistic animation, but animation. Cameron was reaching for the point where you can't tell the difference between what's real and not, and while he didn't get all the way there, the most important thing is that the emotion that comes out of the characters is light years ahead of the stiff, creepy mannequins in Final Fantasy.
 
Rodney V. Smith said:
Agressive marketing is in response to how much they spent on it. They want to ensure that as much people are psyched to see the movie as possible so that they make their money back. It's a business. Being lazy about marketing and not giving it a huge push isn't going to help anything. They have to get butts in the seats. Don't judge a movie by its marketing campaign... or lack of one.

The fact that you're talking about it shows that the campaign has already worked. You are aware of the movie and you will see it eventually.
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Nope, as a member of this kind of movie's core audience, I should be in line for opening weekend and buying advanced tickets for a second viewing. I, much like every other member of this movie's core audience, would have known about the movie.

What I'm hearing from other people I know is that they also have been put off from wanting to see the movie BECAUSE of the marketing. The marketing is part of the movie in that the movie is part of their business structure (the movie being the product).

My stance is against this kind of marketing (which is not about the breadth of the marketing but instead the aggressive tone it's taken which is prevalent in the people's tone who have been brainwashed by the aggressive marketing) and, right now, for something receiving critical acclaim when none of the critiques appear very critical at all.

Now, once I see the movie, I might come back and say what others are saying, that Cameron essentially made his Phantom Menace. But I'll reserve judgement until I've actually seen the film.
 
Chamber005 said:
Now, once I see the movie, I might come back and say what others are saying, that Cameron essentially made his Phantom Menace.
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Anyone who would say that doesn't know what filmmaking is. There is nothing in ths movie that is as ineptly crafted as the things in Phantom Menace. There is no bad acting. There is no horrible dialogue. There is no infantile humor. There are no ideas and plot holes that are monstrously stupid. In Avatar, there is only what is merely okay and passable, and that which is pretty awesome. He never comes close to plunging to TPM's depths.
 
Batutta said:
Sorry, FF was nowhere near photo real, and after just going back and looking at the trailer of it again, it is not that close to Avatar. Avatar didn't cross the bar of photorealism either but it passed the uncanny valley effect of FF. I never saw that as being the goal of Final Fantasy anyways, to fool you into thinking something is real. It was just really nice, more realistic animation, but animation. Cameron was reaching for the point where you can't tell the difference between what's real and not, and while he didn't get all the way there, the most important thing is that the emotion that comes out of the characters is light years ahead of the stiff, creepy mannequins in Final Fantasy.
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Okay, so that we're clear, based on all reviews:

Cameron A) Despite having 500 million dollars was unable to make the computer generated characters appear in every matter real, and B) The story was average.

And no one here feels like they were brainwashed?

No one here thinks that MAYBE the critics wanted SO MUCH to love this movie and to usher in a new era that they made the enormous error in judgement of comparing it to the original Star Wars? Saying that it would change movies forever?

Really?

My point is that Final Fantasy DID in fact change CGI animation forever, and yet not a single critic gave it its due on that.

I'm telling you, something's fishy in the water, and I'm not the only one who is smelling it.
 
Chamber005 said:
what others are saying, that Cameron essentially made his Phantom Menace.
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I seriously don't get where this is coming from. Who's saying things like that?

The public is rating it highly, giving it an 8.9 rating on IMDB, and an A- on Yahoo Movies, and 195 reviews have given it an 82% positive rating on rottentomatoes, with the average reviewer giving it a 7.4.

Compare that to Phantom Menace, which got a 62% positive rating on rottentomatoes, with the average reviewer giving it a 5.9, and an IMDB rating of 6.4! Audiences and critics hated phantom menace.

There is zero negative vibe about Avatar, zero backlash, pretty much anywhere. Audiences and critics both seem to love it. And when they don't love it, they at least like it.

They applauded at the end, at the screening I was in. How often has that happened?
 
Chamber005 said:
Okay, so that we're clear, based on all reviews:

Cameron A) Despite having 500 million dollars was unable to make the computer generated characters appear in every matter real, and B) The story was average.

And no one here feels like they were brainwashed?

No one here thinks that MAYBE the critics wanted SO MUCH to love this movie and to usher in a new era that they made the enormous error in judgement of comparing it to the original Star Wars? Saying that it would change movies forever?

Really?

My point is that Final Fantasy DID in fact change CGI animation forever, and yet not a single critic gave it its due on that.

I'm telling you, something's fishy in the water, and I'm not the only one who is smelling it.
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I just cannot fathom why this matters so much to you. Nobody has come as close as Cameron has to creating photo real fully CGI characters. That is a fact. And they give real performances. People like Avatar. People didn't like Final Fantasy. Probably because it creeped them out. Deal with it.
 
Batutta said:
I just cannot fathom why this matters so much to you. Nobody has come as close as Cameron has to creating photo real fully CGI characters. That is a fact. And they give real performances. People like Avatar. People didn't like Final Fantasy. Probably because it creeped them out. Deal with it.
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I am dealing with it, that's what I've been talking about. Myself and everyone else who has decided not to see it opening weekend are all dealing with it.

But hey, we won't know who's right until Monday when the numbers are finalized.
 
Chamber005 said:
But hey, we won't know who's right until Monday when the numbers are finalized.
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Who's right? Exactly what will be proven right by the box office? That has no bearing on the quality of the movie. Paul Blart: Mall Cop made 33 million opening weekend. Titanic only made 25 million its opening weekend. It's clear you have an aversion to the way the film is being marketed and feel people have been "brainwashed" into liking it but I'm sorry, you can't fool that many people, especially critics. It's around 84 percent last time I checked Rottentomatoes. Everytime I go on Facebook I see another person raving about it, and these aren't all film people. Of my friends and family, I'm probably the one that liked it the least because I'm pretty discerning, and I still liked it.
 
about the story....

I just didn't find it "lacking", or anything. I don't think it was intended to be more than it was. It was a pretty classic tale retold in whole new environment with a rich, deep world as the backdrop. A movies, movie. And, the story will be one that can resonate with people for a long time rather than being relevant only to today's audience. Take something that can be relate able to as many people as possible, and not muddy it up with a bunch of crazy plot twists or characters, etc. Instead, focus on presenting it in a new way.

As far as hating the hype and the marketing campaign and all that. Sure, whatever. I didn't get into all that stuff though, and I'm certainly not going to let some businessmen's attempt to recoupe a rather massive investment color my impression of the movie. I let my actual watching of it color it. It is a business. Folks ahve to make their money back. I'm just glad that someone was willing to put up those kind of dollars to allow the film to be made. It really is quite an experience. You don't have to dig deep to find meaning or purpose. It's all right there in front of your face. The "predicatability" in this case did not bother me in the least. On the contrary, it seemed quite a logical choice and one that worked well. So many movies suffer from bad structure and execution. Here was a *massive* undertaking that came across as so clean and trim, yet rich and engrossing.

Later,
jason
 
For anyone interested in the numbers, looks like Avatar made an estimated 27 million on Friday in domestic box office sales (U.S. only)

later,
Jason
 
^Well put. That's exactly how I felt. The "predicability" fit the purpose.

Avatar is a good movie, but a truly wonderful experience.
 
Sad Max said:
We shot it, but it didn't make the final edit. I would have liked to see it stay in, but I can't really argue that it would have been a big difference in the overall experience.
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Wow! Hope to see it on the blu-ray. Supposedly my DLP projector is going to get a 3D firmware upgrade. Will be great to see it in 3D at home.
 
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