LaFinDuMonde
Active member
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
ya buddy welcome to sweet capitalism you commie bastard.
ya buddy welcome to sweet capitalism you commie bastard.
Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
- Thread starter Barry_Green
- Start date
Z
Zoomforce
Guest
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
I dont see what the big problem here is.
I am in Canada. When I was ready to buy my DVX way back when, I talked directly to Panasonic Western Canada Sales rep. He told me to goto this great "commercial electronics" shop close to my house so i Did, and the service was so horrible I was actually shocked that Panasonic Recommended them. At the same time, I started talking to Cody down at EVS and after the most excellent service I have every recieved I bought it there, got it shipped to Canada. I got better service, and ended up saving about $1000 to boot (because of the exchange). I knew perfectly well, that I couldnt take it to my Canada repair shop to get fixed.. and the rep from panasonic was so mad at me for buying US he made sure he reminded me of the warranty thing. No big deal.. I ended up saving money so a Fedex back and forth to the states for a repair was justified.
Anyways, I knew what I was getting into, and have no problem sending it back to the states to get repaired, because it has a US warranty. If you get your box and it has a Canadian or Asian warranty card in there, then I dont see how you can try to justify a US warranty from Panasonic USA.
You probally saved some cash by buying it Grey Market, so you gotta accept that responsibility. I think the problem here is alot of people are used to consumer electronics and the rather lax warranties they hold.
I dont see what the big problem here is.
I am in Canada. When I was ready to buy my DVX way back when, I talked directly to Panasonic Western Canada Sales rep. He told me to goto this great "commercial electronics" shop close to my house so i Did, and the service was so horrible I was actually shocked that Panasonic Recommended them. At the same time, I started talking to Cody down at EVS and after the most excellent service I have every recieved I bought it there, got it shipped to Canada. I got better service, and ended up saving about $1000 to boot (because of the exchange). I knew perfectly well, that I couldnt take it to my Canada repair shop to get fixed.. and the rep from panasonic was so mad at me for buying US he made sure he reminded me of the warranty thing. No big deal.. I ended up saving money so a Fedex back and forth to the states for a repair was justified.
Anyways, I knew what I was getting into, and have no problem sending it back to the states to get repaired, because it has a US warranty. If you get your box and it has a Canadian or Asian warranty card in there, then I dont see how you can try to justify a US warranty from Panasonic USA.
You probally saved some cash by buying it Grey Market, so you gotta accept that responsibility. I think the problem here is alot of people are used to consumer electronics and the rather lax warranties they hold.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
People are also upset because they're getting lied to. Gray-marketers are directly telling them that "yes, we're authorized" and "yes, it'll have a US warranty"... but they're just getting lied to. You knew what you were getting into, and it worked out great. But for people who think they're buying from a legit dealer, only to find out that they were lied to, that's why they get upset. I think the anger towards Panasonic US is quite misplaced, but I do understand why they're unhappy. And unfortunately Panasonic doesn't make it all that easy to tell whether your dealer is authorized or not -- I'd like to see a national ad campaign that says "these are our 2004 authorized dealers... buy from them, and only from them, if you want to get a US warranty. Anyone else is is a gray marketer, no matter what they say (and if they say they are, then you know they're liars in addition to being gray marketers!)"
People are also upset because they're getting lied to. Gray-marketers are directly telling them that "yes, we're authorized" and "yes, it'll have a US warranty"... but they're just getting lied to. You knew what you were getting into, and it worked out great. But for people who think they're buying from a legit dealer, only to find out that they were lied to, that's why they get upset. I think the anger towards Panasonic US is quite misplaced, but I do understand why they're unhappy. And unfortunately Panasonic doesn't make it all that easy to tell whether your dealer is authorized or not -- I'd like to see a national ad campaign that says "these are our 2004 authorized dealers... buy from them, and only from them, if you want to get a US warranty. Anyone else is is a gray marketer, no matter what they say (and if they say they are, then you know they're liars in addition to being gray marketers!)"
Z
Zoomforce
Guest
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
yes good point... I think the finger should be pointing to the dealers and not panasonic, and as for the national add campaing, its alot of money that Panasonic would need to pay for for something that is not thier problem. I could sell my GMC astro van to someone and tell them it has a full factory warranty, evne though it doesnt, and I would assume that person would sue me instead of GMC if something went wrong.
yes good point... I think the finger should be pointing to the dealers and not panasonic, and as for the national add campaing, its alot of money that Panasonic would need to pay for for something that is not thier problem. I could sell my GMC astro van to someone and tell them it has a full factory warranty, evne though it doesnt, and I would assume that person would sue me instead of GMC if something went wrong.
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
I dunno, Jarred. I'm not personally familiar with your finances, but I'm going to guess that General Motors has more ample resources.
Of course, obscene litigation hysteria and the insatiable hunt for deep pockets might not be as prevalent in Canada.
I dunno, Jarred. I'm not personally familiar with your finances, but I'm going to guess that General Motors has more ample resources.
Of course, obscene litigation hysteria and the insatiable hunt for deep pockets might not be as prevalent in Canada.
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=60#64 date=08/15/04 at 21:17:49]People are also upset because they're getting lied to. Gray-marketers are directly telling them that "yes, we're authorized" and "yes, it'll have a US warranty"... but they're just getting lied to. [/quote]
And you know Barry, I do understand as well. So what I did was to differentiate the US product with the addition of Magic Bullet. If they ask the supposed authorized dealer" Does that include the Magic Bullet Software?" and they say "huh?" "what?" or have any hem-haw, walk away, do not pass go, do not buy it, if you are in the US.
I have looked at so many invoices that these so-called dealers produce and they charge for the stuff that is standard. The poor customer has a great price on the camera but has buy all sorts of things, like the AC Adapter for $500. It is crazy. It is an emotional issue.
Some folks think that because the little green warranty card is in their box, that they are home free because it says for US warranty send here. Guess what, the serial number is what is tracked for warranty. We tried the first way, but found out that we were servicing more cameras than we sold. So it is the Serial number and Model number.
This is a frustrating issue for me as well. I have one pending call from one of these resellers tomorrow who is outraged that I told his customer that he didn't have a US warranty. I checked the customer's serial number and we never imported it. Today I spent about an hour out of my day, on this stuff.
All of this is why the Magic Bullet!!!! Those that have not purchased, please ask for it. If it is not there, walk away find another reseller, there are a number that support this forum and others that will sell you the right goods at the right price. I THINK ALL SHOULD RECORD THESE CONVERSATIONS with the reseller. May not be useable in a court of law, but my feeling is that if you called the owner of the shop back and played it for him after not getting the Magic Bullet, then you might get an easier return.
I just helped that customer over on creativecow, that Pooh pointed to in an earlier post. Hopefully his credit card company will help him effectuate a timely and reasonable return.
I hope that helps,
Jan
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=60#64 date=08/15/04 at 21:17:49]People are also upset because they're getting lied to. Gray-marketers are directly telling them that "yes, we're authorized" and "yes, it'll have a US warranty"... but they're just getting lied to. [/quote]
And you know Barry, I do understand as well. So what I did was to differentiate the US product with the addition of Magic Bullet. If they ask the supposed authorized dealer" Does that include the Magic Bullet Software?" and they say "huh?" "what?" or have any hem-haw, walk away, do not pass go, do not buy it, if you are in the US.
I have looked at so many invoices that these so-called dealers produce and they charge for the stuff that is standard. The poor customer has a great price on the camera but has buy all sorts of things, like the AC Adapter for $500. It is crazy. It is an emotional issue.
Some folks think that because the little green warranty card is in their box, that they are home free because it says for US warranty send here. Guess what, the serial number is what is tracked for warranty. We tried the first way, but found out that we were servicing more cameras than we sold. So it is the Serial number and Model number.
This is a frustrating issue for me as well. I have one pending call from one of these resellers tomorrow who is outraged that I told his customer that he didn't have a US warranty. I checked the customer's serial number and we never imported it. Today I spent about an hour out of my day, on this stuff.
All of this is why the Magic Bullet!!!! Those that have not purchased, please ask for it. If it is not there, walk away find another reseller, there are a number that support this forum and others that will sell you the right goods at the right price. I THINK ALL SHOULD RECORD THESE CONVERSATIONS with the reseller. May not be useable in a court of law, but my feeling is that if you called the owner of the shop back and played it for him after not getting the Magic Bullet, then you might get an easier return.
I just helped that customer over on creativecow, that Pooh pointed to in an earlier post. Hopefully his credit card company will help him effectuate a timely and reasonable return.
I hope that helps,
Jan
Z
Zoomforce
Guest
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=60#66 date=08/17/04 at 13:26:05]
Of course, obscene litigation hysteria and the insatiable hunt for deep pockets might not be as prevalent in Canada.[/quote]
One of my business clients is the largest lawfirms in Canada... and that Hysteria indirectly keeps the DVxuser servers paid for
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=60#66 date=08/17/04 at 13:26:05]
Of course, obscene litigation hysteria and the insatiable hunt for deep pockets might not be as prevalent in Canada.[/quote]
One of my business clients is the largest lawfirms in Canada... and that Hysteria indirectly keeps the DVxuser servers paid for
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
WAKE UP! All these comments and this entire thread line is bulls--t. You can't tell me there are only 5 authorized dvx dealers--evs, bh, willoby, etc., in the USA. Get your head out of your butts!
If Panasonic had any nerve and sense of fair play they simply send DVXuser the entire list to print, let us decide who we want to do business with. What is all this nonsense over needing zip codes, getting one or two dealer hits on the Panasonic site. You people are silly and flat out lousy consumers. You ask all the wrong questions, piddle around in the swill of obfuscatious answers.
WHERE IS THAT LIST!?
Cmon! Wake up! ;D
WAKE UP! All these comments and this entire thread line is bulls--t. You can't tell me there are only 5 authorized dvx dealers--evs, bh, willoby, etc., in the USA. Get your head out of your butts!
If Panasonic had any nerve and sense of fair play they simply send DVXuser the entire list to print, let us decide who we want to do business with. What is all this nonsense over needing zip codes, getting one or two dealer hits on the Panasonic site. You people are silly and flat out lousy consumers. You ask all the wrong questions, piddle around in the swill of obfuscatious answers.
WHERE IS THAT LIST!?
Cmon! Wake up! ;D
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
;D
I'm baaaaack. All anyone needs is a simple pdf file of usa authorized dealers. What is the problem with that? No bandwidth, no national ad campaign. What can it be; five minutes work to generate the (known) list, generate a 100kb PDF file for a six second to download?
Jan...c'mon, I have faith. I know Panasonic can do this.
And as far as the legality of grey market in '70s decision--it's true grey market got rubber stamped. Where manufacturers/dealers took the consumer hit was the subsequent price fixing amongst manufacturers who purposely limited their distribution to both maintain dealer list pricing, tightly control manufacturing to a market that would always pay top dollar to the lucky few that had manufacturer accounts.
You could even buy legitimate products from grey market dealers--especially if they had no serial number. Legitimate dealers would buy massive amounts of product, get biggest discounts, then become distributers selling product to unauthorized dealers--at a profit--who then sold product to consumer at top dollar. They didn't dare discount or they'd lose their only source of product.
I went through this cycle in the tennis business.
One of Panasonic's big problems is its dealer network. I venture to guess most are not consumer retailers but rather commercial retailers who support the commercial cine/film industry. Which is why you can't find the camera in Best Buy or wherever. A lot of these products are made to be in limited production/distribution from the get go. Sony commercial has to beat off Sony consumer--just like Panasonic. The Sony PD series is not available to a lot of consumer retailers. Canon doesn't have that problem. The XL/GL product are consumer products. What will be different with the XL2 will be its limited distribution since the market already has a lot of XL-1 in service.
The DVX is Panasonic's first successful foray into the prosumer/commercial market. I'm not so sure they've got the distribution/marketing down. The cameras are being manufactured--they're just not getting to the states, which opens up a clandestine market. And DOES by all means--by distribution collusion--fix prices nearer the list priice since there is little competition.
The sad news is we pay more and quibble over these issues. So when was sthe last time you ever got a deal on an Arri in the box?
These days, still or video, I never keep anything (other than optics) longer than a year or two--then dump it. It's not a love affair.
But it is unnerving not to see a valid retailer list. It's in Panaqsonic's best interest unless they have a fixed quota for the US to be distributed over a fixed time frame until the next upgrade.
And on it goes...
;D
I'm baaaaack. All anyone needs is a simple pdf file of usa authorized dealers. What is the problem with that? No bandwidth, no national ad campaign. What can it be; five minutes work to generate the (known) list, generate a 100kb PDF file for a six second to download?
Jan...c'mon, I have faith. I know Panasonic can do this.
And as far as the legality of grey market in '70s decision--it's true grey market got rubber stamped. Where manufacturers/dealers took the consumer hit was the subsequent price fixing amongst manufacturers who purposely limited their distribution to both maintain dealer list pricing, tightly control manufacturing to a market that would always pay top dollar to the lucky few that had manufacturer accounts.
You could even buy legitimate products from grey market dealers--especially if they had no serial number. Legitimate dealers would buy massive amounts of product, get biggest discounts, then become distributers selling product to unauthorized dealers--at a profit--who then sold product to consumer at top dollar. They didn't dare discount or they'd lose their only source of product.
I went through this cycle in the tennis business.
One of Panasonic's big problems is its dealer network. I venture to guess most are not consumer retailers but rather commercial retailers who support the commercial cine/film industry. Which is why you can't find the camera in Best Buy or wherever. A lot of these products are made to be in limited production/distribution from the get go. Sony commercial has to beat off Sony consumer--just like Panasonic. The Sony PD series is not available to a lot of consumer retailers. Canon doesn't have that problem. The XL/GL product are consumer products. What will be different with the XL2 will be its limited distribution since the market already has a lot of XL-1 in service.
The DVX is Panasonic's first successful foray into the prosumer/commercial market. I'm not so sure they've got the distribution/marketing down. The cameras are being manufactured--they're just not getting to the states, which opens up a clandestine market. And DOES by all means--by distribution collusion--fix prices nearer the list priice since there is little competition.
The sad news is we pay more and quibble over these issues. So when was sthe last time you ever got a deal on an Arri in the box?
These days, still or video, I never keep anything (other than optics) longer than a year or two--then dump it. It's not a love affair.
But it is unnerving not to see a valid retailer list. It's in Panaqsonic's best interest unless they have a fixed quota for the US to be distributed over a fixed time frame until the next upgrade.
And on it goes...
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
Turk wrote: I venture to guess most are not consumer retailers but rather commercial retailers who support the commercial cine/film industry.
Exacty so Turk. Those commercial retailers are the very dealers that resell this product.
> A lot of these products are made to be in limited production/distribution from the get go.
When this camera was first introduced, the biggest complaint and you can go back on this very board and read them for yourself was about "why does my video stutter?" I cannot imagine anyone behind the counter at Best Buy even beginning to be able to answer the question. Heck they can't even tell you why the color differences are there on the wall of monitors. It takes a more experienced person in the business to answer questions, and in general that is what you find in a commercial reselling operation.
>Sony commercial has to beat off Sony consumer--just like Panasonic.
Since there is not a consumer version of the DVX100 this is not a problem.
>The DVX is Panasonic's first successful foray into the prosumer/commercial market. I'm not so sure they've got the distribution/marketing down. The cameras are being manufactured--they're just not getting to the states, which opens up a clandestine market.
It is a very popular camera and with that comes an opportunity for gray market. Frankly we sell a lot of cameras that are US cameras as well, we do not have a limit or a quota, we sell as many as I can get in the country.
Many customers insist on the lowest price and they get burned. I see how it happens. They see the $1995 price, they click on it, they go through the process of ordering it and even give their credit card info. The slimeball dealer charges their card and does not ship, knowing that the customer will call. Then when he does, the dealer tells him, that the camera by itself is out of stock but he does have some packages that are available for about $3400 dollars, would you like one of those? Since the credit card has already been charged the customer is stuck.
>And DOES by all means--by distribution collusion--fix prices nearer the list priice since there is little competition.
Trust me there is no collusion, if there was the FTC would be on it like white on rice. There is plenty of competition within the dealer ranks, most find the pricing from B & H to be all the competition they need.
>But it is unnerving not to see a valid retailer list. It's in Panasonic's best interest unless they have a fixed quota for the US to be distributed over a fixed time frame until the next upgrade.
Frankly I don't see what is unnerving about this, many of our dealers don't want to be polled for the price of the DVX100A, they want to do business with people that want to do business with them. The way we have the website set up gives you local dealers, the ones that at the top of this thread are ones that do a more national/internet business.
Hope that helps,
Jan
Turk wrote: I venture to guess most are not consumer retailers but rather commercial retailers who support the commercial cine/film industry.
Exacty so Turk. Those commercial retailers are the very dealers that resell this product.
> A lot of these products are made to be in limited production/distribution from the get go.
When this camera was first introduced, the biggest complaint and you can go back on this very board and read them for yourself was about "why does my video stutter?" I cannot imagine anyone behind the counter at Best Buy even beginning to be able to answer the question. Heck they can't even tell you why the color differences are there on the wall of monitors. It takes a more experienced person in the business to answer questions, and in general that is what you find in a commercial reselling operation.
>Sony commercial has to beat off Sony consumer--just like Panasonic.
Since there is not a consumer version of the DVX100 this is not a problem.
>The DVX is Panasonic's first successful foray into the prosumer/commercial market. I'm not so sure they've got the distribution/marketing down. The cameras are being manufactured--they're just not getting to the states, which opens up a clandestine market.
It is a very popular camera and with that comes an opportunity for gray market. Frankly we sell a lot of cameras that are US cameras as well, we do not have a limit or a quota, we sell as many as I can get in the country.
Many customers insist on the lowest price and they get burned. I see how it happens. They see the $1995 price, they click on it, they go through the process of ordering it and even give their credit card info. The slimeball dealer charges their card and does not ship, knowing that the customer will call. Then when he does, the dealer tells him, that the camera by itself is out of stock but he does have some packages that are available for about $3400 dollars, would you like one of those? Since the credit card has already been charged the customer is stuck.
>And DOES by all means--by distribution collusion--fix prices nearer the list priice since there is little competition.
Trust me there is no collusion, if there was the FTC would be on it like white on rice. There is plenty of competition within the dealer ranks, most find the pricing from B & H to be all the competition they need.
>But it is unnerving not to see a valid retailer list. It's in Panasonic's best interest unless they have a fixed quota for the US to be distributed over a fixed time frame until the next upgrade.
Frankly I don't see what is unnerving about this, many of our dealers don't want to be polled for the price of the DVX100A, they want to do business with people that want to do business with them. The way we have the website set up gives you local dealers, the ones that at the top of this thread are ones that do a more national/internet business.
Hope that helps,
Jan
Gary_McClurg
Well-known member
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
Jan, off topic. But do you have any clue how many varicams and sdx900's sold in the US compared to the DVX100 and the DVX100a overall? Also can you add in or guess how many gray market cameras sold in the grey market would also effect those numbers.
Jan, off topic. But do you have any clue how many varicams and sdx900's sold in the US compared to the DVX100 and the DVX100a overall? Also can you add in or guess how many gray market cameras sold in the grey market would also effect those numbers.
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
Jan:
The average person buying a dvx, I venture to say, has already done their homework, could care less about getting an explanation or a sales pitch from Best Buy, BH or Whomever. That would go for an Arri or any other professional piece of equipment--unless one is to spend an exhorbitant amount of money on film/cine ad-ons. What's to know? You're assuming the average purchaser is a neophyte needing to be talked through the advantages of SonyvsPanasonicvsJVCvsCanon, 24pvs30p, etc. I don't care where I buy the camera because I know the seller won't be servicing the camera--the manufacturer will...probably by fedex.
As for the FTC, it doesn't work that way. I work in fedgov. It works this way: one contacts the state and federal attorney generals--then it unfolds. Collusion isn't people or entities getting togehter--it's more often companies merely sharing the same goal--getting as much of your money one way or another. Think domestic oil companies on this one. Think Opec. We don't have any control over OPec but we (and EU) have voice in how these systems affect our lives--which is how they end up in court paying off a gazillion dollars "to not admit guilty" when we all know they're guilty. They know it too--just can't afford to have it on the record.
I'm not buying your arguement. I don't trust you. Nor am I buying your arguement that Panasonic is doing everything they can to get more cameras into the US while they're being delivered the same day by the boatload from other sources to be grey marketed. What a ridiculous arguement! That would mean there are virtually no NTSC dvx cameras available in another part of the world since they're syphoned to US!? That's pretty funny. I can get either one from BH!
Dealers don't want to be polled on dvx prices? Pity pooh. But I guess that's my point--the prices are fixed because there is no comptetion (since Panasonic won't supply a valid seller list or expand its reseller base), thus we the buyer/consumer end up with Magic Bullet and collusion by manufacturer to authorized reseller to pay within a fixed price range by a limited number of suppliers. Interesting. The more I look at it the more it sounds like collusion rather than free trade. Essentially Panasonic and its (authorized by guess who, Panasonic) dealers are dictating the price rather than consumer via demand and supply. What Panasonic is doing is cuckolding supply to the advantage of its dealers. Interesting. Doesn't sound much like a supply/demand economy to me.
Your arguement are well stated but hollow in light of the facts. Panasonic is trying to play it both ways between Matsusita and consumer to protect its dealer network--because the cuckolded dealer network sells the megabuck commercial camcorder line. The dvx isn't anything more to them than a teaser into selling ad-ons and upgrades.
Sorry, not interested. Just want a product at a competitive price and availability. Panasonic/Dealers provide neither. It's collusion by interest rather than form: the consumer is left out in the cold because of a cuckolded market economy NOT in the best interest of the system or consumer. It's a system designed by distribution to maintain prices to dealers...not consumers.
You have a website that provides us with nothing in relation to this problem. Where's the dpf file? Let the consumer decide. I'm sure the dealers would be happy to hear from us...unless, of course, there IS collusion by distribution. Then they'll all--surprise--have nearly the same price!
Lastly, these boards are here to answer our queries and problems to be able to make the best purchase--often and increasingly on the internet--without having to deal with sales people whose only interest is in selling us the store. It's called research. Works for me. I haven't talked to a sales person in years. Surprise! I get exactly what I expect thru research, experience and price. Service??? Excuse me. It's going fedex and not to the dealer. As far as I'm concerned the dealer is there to move merchandise and related service when I chose to desire it. I make that descision--not Panasonic or the dealer.
Sorry, can't buy the company line. But that's okay too--cause I only buy what I need for one year, then dump it. I think they call that Planned Obsolescence--only it's on MY part, not anyone elses. ;D
It's not that I don't understand your arguements--it's just that they're all positions. Anyone can say anything. It's the marketplace that I like to see make the final decision. And I don't believe that's what is happening.
Jan:
The average person buying a dvx, I venture to say, has already done their homework, could care less about getting an explanation or a sales pitch from Best Buy, BH or Whomever. That would go for an Arri or any other professional piece of equipment--unless one is to spend an exhorbitant amount of money on film/cine ad-ons. What's to know? You're assuming the average purchaser is a neophyte needing to be talked through the advantages of SonyvsPanasonicvsJVCvsCanon, 24pvs30p, etc. I don't care where I buy the camera because I know the seller won't be servicing the camera--the manufacturer will...probably by fedex.
As for the FTC, it doesn't work that way. I work in fedgov. It works this way: one contacts the state and federal attorney generals--then it unfolds. Collusion isn't people or entities getting togehter--it's more often companies merely sharing the same goal--getting as much of your money one way or another. Think domestic oil companies on this one. Think Opec. We don't have any control over OPec but we (and EU) have voice in how these systems affect our lives--which is how they end up in court paying off a gazillion dollars "to not admit guilty" when we all know they're guilty. They know it too--just can't afford to have it on the record.
I'm not buying your arguement. I don't trust you. Nor am I buying your arguement that Panasonic is doing everything they can to get more cameras into the US while they're being delivered the same day by the boatload from other sources to be grey marketed. What a ridiculous arguement! That would mean there are virtually no NTSC dvx cameras available in another part of the world since they're syphoned to US!? That's pretty funny. I can get either one from BH!
Dealers don't want to be polled on dvx prices? Pity pooh. But I guess that's my point--the prices are fixed because there is no comptetion (since Panasonic won't supply a valid seller list or expand its reseller base), thus we the buyer/consumer end up with Magic Bullet and collusion by manufacturer to authorized reseller to pay within a fixed price range by a limited number of suppliers. Interesting. The more I look at it the more it sounds like collusion rather than free trade. Essentially Panasonic and its (authorized by guess who, Panasonic) dealers are dictating the price rather than consumer via demand and supply. What Panasonic is doing is cuckolding supply to the advantage of its dealers. Interesting. Doesn't sound much like a supply/demand economy to me.
Your arguement are well stated but hollow in light of the facts. Panasonic is trying to play it both ways between Matsusita and consumer to protect its dealer network--because the cuckolded dealer network sells the megabuck commercial camcorder line. The dvx isn't anything more to them than a teaser into selling ad-ons and upgrades.
Sorry, not interested. Just want a product at a competitive price and availability. Panasonic/Dealers provide neither. It's collusion by interest rather than form: the consumer is left out in the cold because of a cuckolded market economy NOT in the best interest of the system or consumer. It's a system designed by distribution to maintain prices to dealers...not consumers.
You have a website that provides us with nothing in relation to this problem. Where's the dpf file? Let the consumer decide. I'm sure the dealers would be happy to hear from us...unless, of course, there IS collusion by distribution. Then they'll all--surprise--have nearly the same price!
Lastly, these boards are here to answer our queries and problems to be able to make the best purchase--often and increasingly on the internet--without having to deal with sales people whose only interest is in selling us the store. It's called research. Works for me. I haven't talked to a sales person in years. Surprise! I get exactly what I expect thru research, experience and price. Service??? Excuse me. It's going fedex and not to the dealer. As far as I'm concerned the dealer is there to move merchandise and related service when I chose to desire it. I make that descision--not Panasonic or the dealer.
Sorry, can't buy the company line. But that's okay too--cause I only buy what I need for one year, then dump it. I think they call that Planned Obsolescence--only it's on MY part, not anyone elses. ;D
It's not that I don't understand your arguements--it's just that they're all positions. Anyone can say anything. It's the marketplace that I like to see make the final decision. And I don't believe that's what is happening.
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
[quote author=turk link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=75#76 date=08/21/04 at 19:40:41]Jan: And 'Oh by the way'--
--the aj-spx800 is hitting the nail right on the head! Nice unit. Great price. Not exactly the P2 that was shown at the NAB but...[/quote]
How is it not the P2 shown at NAB? From what I see, it is.
Curious,
Jan
[quote author=turk link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=75#76 date=08/21/04 at 19:40:41]Jan: And 'Oh by the way'--
--the aj-spx800 is hitting the nail right on the head! Nice unit. Great price. Not exactly the P2 that was shown at the NAB but...[/quote]How is it not the P2 shown at NAB? From what I see, it is.
Curious,
Jan
skippyfetus
Carbonite Member
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
I can't believe this thread is still going :'(
BOTTOM LINE: Before you buy a camera, call them and make sure it's a brand new, unopened US model with a warrenty card, unless you want to pay to have it shipped out of the country for repair service... which will also take much longer.
That's all you need to know... you don't have to buy from a place that is "authorized". If you call them and they say that it's a US model and it's not when it arrives, send it back with delivery confirmation. If you don't get your refund, call your credit card and have them charge your money back.
It's really not that dangerous.
I can't believe this thread is still going :'(
BOTTOM LINE: Before you buy a camera, call them and make sure it's a brand new, unopened US model with a warrenty card, unless you want to pay to have it shipped out of the country for repair service... which will also take much longer.
That's all you need to know... you don't have to buy from a place that is "authorized". If you call them and they say that it's a US model and it's not when it arrives, send it back with delivery confirmation. If you don't get your refund, call your credit card and have them charge your money back.
It's really not that dangerous.
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
Jan:
Sorry, not to confuse: I was referring to the smaller dvx size p2 hd flash card prototype that I'm sure will come 24/30P, 16:9 with 16x Leica (32.5mm to 520mm), .6 WA (threaded) attachment, cine/vid/doc gamma, zero to minus lux infrared, weigh less than five pounds, take every cine/film attachment known to man. (I won't even ask for the Sony EVC-X10 C-mount--murdered post haste by Sony Broadcast circa early '90s which-viola-opened the door to Canon XL.) No runs, no drips, no errors--miniumum add-on attachments. A DVX-P2.
(Somebody pleeeze kill this thread! ;D
Jan:
Sorry, not to confuse: I was referring to the smaller dvx size p2 hd flash card prototype that I'm sure will come 24/30P, 16:9 with 16x Leica (32.5mm to 520mm), .6 WA (threaded) attachment, cine/vid/doc gamma, zero to minus lux infrared, weigh less than five pounds, take every cine/film attachment known to man. (I won't even ask for the Sony EVC-X10 C-mount--murdered post haste by Sony Broadcast circa early '90s which-viola-opened the door to Canon XL.) No runs, no drips, no errors--miniumum add-on attachments. A DVX-P2.
(Somebody pleeeze kill this thread! ;D
Rogue Crew
Well-known member
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
I think maybe you just did........
I think maybe you just did........
Gary_McClurg
Well-known member
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy
Does anyone know if AbelCineTech in New York is an authorized dealer a friend is interested in buying and I guess he's talking them.
I told him about the Magic Bullet and he said the guy at the store never said anything about it. So if anyone knows thanks.
I just told him about EVS so it's up to him in the end where he wants to buy.
Does anyone know if AbelCineTech in New York is an authorized dealer a friend is interested in buying and I guess he's talking them.
I told him about the Magic Bullet and he said the guy at the store never said anything about it. So if anyone knows thanks.
I just told him about EVS so it's up to him in the end where he wants to buy.