FS7: Audio Settings

Joshua Milligan

Joshua Milligan

Well-known member
Hey friends. I have been trying to get the best audio out of my FS7 and in trying to set all of the levels and such, I ran into a few questions that I'm hoping you might can answer.


1. I am running a Rode NTG4 in Input 1, a Sony UWP-D wireless mic in Input 2 and a Sony UWP-D wireless mic in the hot shoe using a SMAD-P3 adapter for Input 3. I mic'd up one person with both of the wireless mics to test them using the same settings on both mics. I noticed on the Status screen that the wireless mic in Input 2 was recording at less dBs than the wireless mic in Input 3 with the adapter. By the way, I am using Auto Gain Control because I'm using this for run and gun shooting. The only setting that seemed to make them run at the exact same level was by changing the INPUT2 MIC Ref. from -50 to -60 dB for the Input 2 mic. Why is this? Is this because Input 3 with the SMAD-P3 adapter is referencing at -60 instead of -50? Will changing the setting to -60 in camera so the mics operate the same hurt my audio? I'm wanting them to work the same because I noticed on my last shoot that people interviewed with the wireless mic in Input 2 were recording much lower than those recorded with the wireless mic in Input 3.

2. My second question is if you think it's ok to change Input 2 to -60, then should I also change Input 1 for the Rode shotgun mic to -60 for consistency, or can that just stay at -50?

3. I don't quite understand the ATT setting on the Sony transmitters. I have them set at 0 right now, but I am not quite sure if that's correct.

4. Lastly, my old Sennheiser wireless mics sounded great when clipped onto a shirt during interviews, but these Sony's sound very flat there. If you hold the lapel in front of your mouth they are excellent, but when clipped on a shirt they sound real flat and not as crisp or bold as the Sennheisers did. Can I fix this?


Sorry for all of the questions. Audio is my weakest link and I'm wanting to get better with it. Any help is appreciated.
 
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ATT means input attenuation (gain control of the incoming mic signal.)

So it means you can independently set the "volume control" of your mic input. So if you've got someone shouting, you should attenuate the gain control down to a level where it's not too hot (using the meter on the transmitter.)

That done, your transmitter will then have a healthy signal to send to your receiver, without too much compander noise etc (ie it'll sound nice, because you've set up a healthy signal to noise ratio.)

Auto Gain Control = Anti Christ/Apocalypse/Euggghhh. Turn it off now - it's a throw back to analogue days, when recording bandwidth couldn't handle large dynamic ranges. All it will do is pump away like an ugly compressor/limiter, just becasue you forgot to set your levels.

You've got a huge amount of headroom with the FS7, so if you're setting your transmitter/mic up properly, you shouldn't run into any issues. Just keep an eye on the meters while you're shooting (or get a sound recordist... yeah, I know...)

Those Sony mics that are included in the kit do sound a bit dull. I did a side-by-side comparison with my TRAM TR50 recently, to see if the Sony was a worthy backup mic.

I don't think it is - it's a cheap mic and will give cheap results if your audio environment is anything but pristine (ie, when you may need more than just bit of EQ.)

Spend some money on a decent mic (I recommend the TRAM/Countryman) and those Sony TX/RX packages are really bloody useful for one-man-band shooting - gets me out of jail all of the time.

Ben.
 
Thanks bengiles! I appreciate you taking the time to write back. Two questions: I tried setting the ATT on the transmitter by watching the levels on the transmitter, but they seemed to stay the same no matter what setting I had ATT on. My thought process was to set ATT on the transmitter following the meters on the TX, then set the Out Levels on the receiver by following the meters on the RX, then lastly set the levels on the FS7 to try and stay between -12 to -6 dB. My issue now seems to be that I don't see much of a change in meters on the TX and RX when changing the ATT and Out Settings. Seems to keep hitting around 2/3 of the way up the bar.

My second question is about replacing the Sony lapels. I looked up the Countryman B3, the Tram TR50 and the Sanken COS-11D mics for the Sony transmitters. The Sanken looks to be the best in quality from what I've read, but I heard they don't match well with the Sony transmitters. They are also really expensive. The Countryman B3 looks nice, but the Tram TR50 has great reviews and looks like it does well with the Sony mics. It also looks more robust. Any suggestions on which to get?
 
Leave your receiver output at 0dB - that gives you unity gain, so you're not adding or subtracting at the receiver. Not sure why you're not seeing the ATT change levels at the transmitter end - keep trying and get the attenuation as close to 0dB as you can, without it getting too lively.

Looks like you've answered your own 2nd question. I recommend the TRAM - but be careful to wire it correctly:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...EMW-with-Sony-UTX-B03-radio-mic-TX&highlight=
 
Joshua Milligan said:
I looked up the Countryman B3, the Tram TR50 and the Sanken COS-11D mics for the Sony transmitters.
Click to expand...

I've owned lavs from all three companies. The COS11 is nice, and I'd guess (but don't know) that making it work with a Sony UWP transmitter would be an issue of wiring it correctly. If you're looking at Countryman, check out their EMW which is more similar to the TRAM. The EMW is waterproof and is available in three different response curves:
emw response curves.jpg
http://www.countryman.com/emw-omnidirectional-lavalier

Let me disclose that I worked for Countryman when I was young (over 30 years ago), but I continue to use their mics (mostly EMW with shelved response, some B6) because they sound good and hold up really well. I use Sankens a lot, too. I don't currently own any TRAMs...nothing against the company, but their mics are rather similar to Countryman EMWs.

Bottom line: You'll probably be happy with mics from any of those companies.


 
bengiles said:
Leave your receiver output at 0dB - that gives you unity gain, so you're not adding or subtracting at the receiver. Not sure why you're not seeing the ATT change levels at the transmitter end - keep trying and get the attenuation as close to 0dB as you can, without it getting too lively.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I just tried your settings at the house with both of my wireless mics and they preformed much better. I used Manual this time instead of AGC and ran 0 dB for ATT on the transmitters and 0 dB for the Out Level on both the receivers. I then adjusted the levels on my FS7 to hit around -12 and I got pretty clean results. If it ever gets too hot for my camera then I'll drop the ATT on the transmitters, but as of now they seem to be running good at 0. My audio still seems a bit flat compared to my old Sennheisers, but I believe that much of this is attributed to the Sony lapels. I'll definitely save up some money for new lapels now that I've got the whole mic level thing figured out. Thanks again!
 
Jim Feeley said:
I've owned lavs from all three companies. The COS11 is nice, and I'd guess (but don't know) that making it work with a Sony UWP transmitter would be an issue of wiring it correctly. If you're looking at Countryman, check out their EMW which is more similar to the TRAM. The EMW is waterproof and is available in three different response curves:
View attachment 118030
http://www.countryman.com/emw-omnidirectional-lavalier

Let me disclose that I worked for Countryman when I was young (over 30 years ago), but I continue to use their mics (mostly EMW with shelved response, some B6) because they sound good and hold up really well. I use Sankens a lot, too. I don't currently own any TRAMs...nothing against the company, but their mics are rather similar to Countryman EMWs.

Bottom line: You'll probably be happy with mics from any of those companies.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jim! I have heard a lot of great things about the Countryman mics. I've been reading a lot about them this week. I will definitely look at the EMW mics. I'm looking for a pretty robust lapel that sounds clean and rich. My Sony lapels are just too flat. I shoot a mixture of outdoor documentaries and small business commercials so I have a wide variety of projects for my lapels. My fear about the Countryman B6 is that it might be too small and may not be robust enough to be an all-around mic. That's one of the better things I've heard about the COS-11D mics.
 
The Countryman B6 is a great mic for certain situations. But it's not a general purpose lav as the EMW, TRAM, and Sanken mics, imo.
 
Hello, i have same issue with my two Sony UWP-D (with Sennheiser mke40), to have same audio level, i have to setup fs7 to 50 and other at 60 but i realized that firmwares was not the same, so i updated firmware on two sony Sony UWP-D and tada level are now the same. I don't know if that could help you.
 
rudo_fr said:
Hello, i have same issue with my two Sony UWP-D (with Sennheiser mke40), to have same audio level, i have to setup fs7 to 50 and other at 60 but i realized that firmwares was not the same, so i updated firmware on two sony Sony UWP-D and tada level are now the same. I don't know if that could help you.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the advice! How did you update the firmware on the mics? Mine also have different firmwares like yours did, but I can't figure out how to update them. I even called Sony about it and was told that "they would get back to me." The firmware isn't online that I can see.
 
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no software is not online and it is a software who run only on Windows 7... it is why sony want to update yours. i optained software and new firmware from sony europe anyway and resolved my problem alone.
i can't imagine i have to sent my products for firmware update.
 
It got me on the right track, but it was older firmware than what my mics already had. I contacted Sony once again and finally got someone to send me the most current firmware for both the transmitters and receivers. They still operate at different reference levels though which is puzzling. Thanks for helping me!
 
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