Audio options for the 7d

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luke e

Member
Now I know you guys are going to say something like "this has been covered, search for it". I searched for a good while and got some good information but ultimately my mind has not been made up. I have seen the h4n audio recording device and I like the idea of that, but is the quality actually very good? I saw a test video with it and it didn't sound half bad.. But I have heard that people use that but then plug in 2 XLR mics? I don't understand quite why that is necessary though, because can you not just plug in a Rode videomic for 1/6 of the price and have similar results and not have to worry about syncing up the audio in post? If I'm misinformed or missing out on any common info please do me the favor of letting me know because I'm still a bit off-set about getting good audio with a DSLR.
 
luke e said:
I have seen the h4n audio recording device and I like the idea of that, but is the quality actually very good?
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Honestly, here's how I feel about it. Will the Zoom H4n stand up to a $1200 recorder? No. But it's not supposed to - it's $300. If the 7D produces video of sufficient quality for your production, the H4n will probably be suitable as well. Like the 7D, it can offer really great quality at a price it doesn't deserve.


luke e said:
I saw a test video with it and it didn't sound half bad.. But I have heard that people use that but then plug in 2 XLR mics? I don't understand quite why that is necessary though, because can you not just plug in a Rode videomic for 1/6 of the price and have similar results and not have to worry about syncing up the audio in post?
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The issue is somewhat more complex than that. The Canon 7D uses Auto-Gain Control (AGC) for its onboard audio. That is to say it tries to automatically control the levels of the audio based on the level of input. When there is silence, it automatically turns the gain all the way up, trying to pick up quiet sounds. When there is a loud noise, it turns the gain down, to prevent the sound from becoming overwhelmingly loud. Sounds good, right?

Wrong. AGC introduces a lot of noise into the audio - that terrible hiss/fuzz you might hear on some youtube videos recorded with built-in laptop mics or handycams. And worse, you can't turn it off. It's always on and there is no manual control of the levels.

To add to this problem, there is only one input on the camera. So if you need to run a shotgun on a boom and a lav...you can't. Or if you want to run a boom but also capture ambient noise...you can't. The H4n gives you two permanently mounted omni-directional mics for capturing ambient noise and two additional powered XLR ports - 4 channels total. Control over levels gives you the ability to adjust for volume changes, and decent preamps provide relatively clean sound.

As a general rule (in fact, I know of no exceptions...) external audio even at the low end (H4n) will always beat on-camera audio.
 
I use the Sennnheiser ew100G3 wireless receiver and sennheiser skp100g3 with a senssheiser e835 mic ,
i get very good audio, make shure the rf out level is --18, and Sqelch low,
works like a charm crystal clean audio,
went trough a lot of pain with the audio ,
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...00_Series.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Handheld.html
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Thanks for these posts...have also been searching around trying to get some clarity from experienced on this sound issue too..

Are we correct in concluding therefore that the mic input on the Canon 7D is currently next to useless due to the AGC issue?

The only options for decent sound on a Canon 7D are:

1.) Use an external device like the h4n and sync in post
2.) Wait and pray that "Magic Lantern" or Canon themselves provide the ability to turn off AGC via a firmware change.
3.) Carry out some form of tricky ipod hack that fools the AGC into not working (have seen some posts on this)
4.) Wait a year or two for the 7d mk II

Are there any other options?
Is the sound using the external mic jack of the 7D really that bad?
 
Mavoz said:
Are we correct in concluding therefore that the mic input on the Canon 7D is currently next to useless due to the AGC issue?
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For professional use, yes. I feel that the mic input on the 7D is next to useless* because of the AGC issue.

Mavoz said:
The only options for decent sound on a Canon 7D are:

1.) Use an external device like the h4n and sync in post
2.) Wait and pray that "Magic Lantern" or Canon themselves provide the ability to turn off AGC via a firmware change.
3.) Carry out some form of tricky ipod hack that fools the AGC into not working (have seen some posts on this)
4.) Wait a year or two for the 7d mk II
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That's more or less it...there is a recorder which uses an "inaudible tone" to somewhat negate the AGC and allows you to record in cam with two powered XLR mics and levels. Not sure if it works on the 7D, or not. It's called the BeachTek DXA-5D.

Mavoz said:
Are there any other options?
Is the sound using the external mic jack of the 7D really that bad?
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See that asterisk up there? It comes into play here!

*There is a software product called PluralEyes which uses the onboard audio captured by the 7D to automatically sync external audio. It evidently works very well and very easily.

And for making a quick product review or vimeo news post or family video - something where the production value doesn't need to be very high - the onboard microphone is fine. But there is a reason that, whenever possible, dual system sound is used in virtually every budgeted production. It's better.
 
senderey video said:
I use the Sennnheiser ew100G3 wireless receiver and sennheiser skp100g3 with a senssheiser e835 mic ,
i get very good audio, make shure the rf out level is --18, and Sqelch low,
works like a charm crystal clean audio,
went trough a lot of pain with the audio ,
Click to expand...

Do you use these mics with an external recorder? If so which one? thanks!
 
I hear the JuicedLink CX231 is way better than the Beachtek, and even cheaper!

With a good XLR converter box like the JuicedLink, is this a good alternative to dual system audio?

If I wanted to pull sound from the camera, TO USE, would this be the best choice? Or WILL this be the best choice, once Magic Lantern gets the 7D support out?

BTW, what is the audio format the 7D record to? I know the video is H.264, but what about the audio?
 
but that cord doesn't eliminate the fact that the camera's AGC is still intact so it would still have the same problems as the onboard mic.
 
That setup would allow you to get roughly the same audio to the 7D as the H4N is recording, this MAY be ok and not require sync, but if the auto gain on the camera screws it up, then Plural Eyes will be able to sync them up perfectly with no issues and you then use the H4N audio.
 
the sound quaility in the h4n will sound way better than the in camera sound quality, no matter what you put it through to get around the auto gain. the cable from the h4n would just make it easy to match up the sound tracks in post,the one recorder in camera and the h4n track. why would they call that program PLURAL EYES shouldn,t they have called it PLURAL EARS,,,,,,?
 
Ok so aside from the debate of AGC and what not, what other options do we have for external audio recorders besides the H4N?
 
There's a million, depending on what connectors you want (XLR or 1/4" or 1/8") and how many channels, and what you want to spend. The PMD661, Tascam HD-P2, and Edirol R44 are all excellent.
 
Thanks Barry, I guess I should be more specific hah.

If I want to spend less than $600 on a portable audio recorder that has one or more XLR connectors, and is light enough to be mounted on a handheld HDSLR rig, is the H4N my best bet?
 
Chris Adams said:
If I want to spend less than $600 on a portable audio recorder that has one or more XLR connectors, and is light enough to be mounted on a handheld HDSLR rig, is the H4N my best bet?
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It's half that amount, comes with TWO XLR inputs, two onboard mics, and a mini jack input, is light enough and small to carry in your pocket, and COMES WITH a hotshoe mount that fits a DSLR or any other camera with a hotshoe.

It sounds like its made to your specs. ;)
 
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