GH4 Audio for interview out in the field

B

bdjansen

Member
I'm looking for quality but simple audio recording solutions for video interviews. My work is sending me down to Mexico next month to film a short documentary. I will be recording lots of short interviews.

I don't want to have to sync in post. I also have a lightweight kit and plan to keep it that way. I'll be carrying all my gear in a back pack the whole time. I have a Rode Videomic pro, but I'm not completely happy with the sound. If it's the best I can do without a lot of extra gear I'll keep it, but I would like something better.

I'm looking at the Zoom h4n and h6. I'd also like to hear about other options that you guys like.
 
if you don't want to have to sync then lav to gh4 is probably the easiest solutions, I've used it many times with my gh3 audio levels set to 1 with good results, you just have to make sure its all working. your going to have to sync if you want to use an external recorder so its either or. simplest solution is lav to iPhone/smartphone, next would be lav to H1 for size factor, then its lav to H4 or H6 or whatever after that ( they are a pretty big unit esp the H6)
 
MR Fanny said:
if you don't want to have to sync then lav to gh4 is probably the easiest solutions, I've used it many times with my gh3 audio levels set to 1 with good results, you just have to make sure its all working. your going to have to sync if you want to use an external recorder so its either or. simplest solution is lav to iPhone/smartphone, next would be lav to H1 for size factor, then its lav to H4 or H6 or whatever after that ( they are a pretty big unit esp the H6)
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For the Zoom recorders, I was thinking I would use the 3.5mm out plugged into the camera. I'm wondering if the H4/H6 have better mics and preamps then the Rode and the hotter signal would give me cleaner audio. But they might not be directional enough for interviews.

I'll look into the lavalier mics. I guess I always think about those being wireless and I didn't want to mess with a wireless mic on this trip. But a wired one might not be much more work to clip on a persons shirt.

I might be interviewing some people who don't speak english though. So I might need to record a translator next to them as well. And then I'm not sure a single lavalier mic would work.
 
How many people are you interviewing at a time? Are you shooting indoors or outdoors, or both ?

If it was just one person at a time, I would go with a Sennheiser G3 UHF system and a good lav mic. You could plug the receiver directly into the camera, and monitor via headphones. Just make sure you practice placing the lav mic, so that you know how to place it and not get clothing noise when you record.

If it's more than one person, then if you can place the recorder just out of shot ( I use a Manfrotto back-light stand and crop at people's waists ) you can get very good sound if the recorder is close and the people don't fidget with their hands. A boom from above would be better, but then you have to drag around a boom with you, which is not the most portable item to carry. Yes, you have to sync in post, but this is a low cost solution.

You could use two Sennheiser UHF systems, but then you're looking at $1,200+, but it's very compact and people are free to move about within your frame.

BTW, I would avoid the Zoom H4n recorder if you can. It's a bit on the noisy side, does not handle full LINE level signals without a 20 dB pad, and the built-in mics are nothing to write home about. The Tascam DR-40 beats the Zoom H4n on all counts. The more expensive Zoom H6 does not have any of these issues, and looks to have some interesting accessories.

Will you have somebody to act as a boom-operator or are you doing everything on your own ?

A boom-op would open up a lot more options, and likely produce better sound if they know what they are doing.
 
I've been using a juiced link box with my gh4 and the preamps are very clean. It's a simple small solution to get very clean xlr in to the camera.
 
The Tascam DR-60 is very practical too, if you don't want to sync in post you can feed the audio into the camera and keep a copy on the Tascam.
 
TheDingo said:
How many people are you interviewing at a time? Are you shooting indoors or outdoors, or both ?

If it was just one person at a time, I would go with a Sennheiser G3 UHF system and a good lav mic. You could plug the receiver directly into the camera, and monitor via headphones. Just make sure you practice placing the lav mic, so that you know how to place it and not get clothing noise when you record.

If it's more than one person, then if you can place the recorder just out of shot ( I use a Manfrotto back-light stand and crop at people's waists ) you can get very good sound if the recorder is close and the people don't fidget with their hands. A boom from above would be better, but then you have to drag around a boom with you, which is not the most portable item to carry. Yes, you have to sync in post, but this is a low cost solution.

You could use two Sennheiser UHF systems, but then you're looking at $1,200+, but it's very compact and people are free to move about within your frame.

BTW, I would avoid the Zoom H4n recorder if you can. It's a bit on the noisy side, does not handle full LINE level signals without a 20 dB pad, and the built-in mics are nothing to write home about. The Tascam DR-40 beats the Zoom H4n on all counts. The more expensive Zoom H6 does not have any of these issues, and looks to have some interesting accessories.

Will you have somebody to act as a boom-operator or are you doing everything on your own ?

A boom-op would open up a lot more options, and likely produce better sound if they know what they are doing.
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This will be a one man operation. Most of it will be shot outdoors. Maybe some inside, I don't know. I'm expecting to grab many short clips of various people commenting. Just a couple of quick questions and then moving on. That's why it would be a bit of a pain to sync audio in post.

I suspect that some of the people will not speak english and I will also be recording a translator next to them.
 
bdjansen said:
This will be a one man operation. Most of it will be shot outdoors. Maybe some inside, I don't know. I'm expecting to grab many short clips of various people commenting. Just a couple of quick questions and then moving on. That's why it would be a bit of a pain to sync audio in post.
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A wireless lav mic may be too slow to set-up and may get broken if you are interviewing a lot of people quickly.

A shotgun mic on camera sounds terrible unless you are 2-3 feet from your subject, so you will end up recording a lot of ambient noise which makes it difficult to hear your subject, and the audio quality will be very poor.

Working outside you will need wind-protection, which will likely mean a light-weight "blimp" style wind-shield for the shotgun mic.

This really needs a sound person operating a wireless shotgun mic that records directly to the camera, and they will be free to position the shotgun mic just out of frame to get great sound.
 
its a matter of compromise i guess. i would go direct to camera route myself to save myself the hassle of re syncing in post. then again it should only take you 5mins to sync in post anyway if you can find the time for it between travels. you have to ask yourself the question too if any of the people will be walking and talking, then you would go wireless or portable recorder/smartphone in pocket, translator can be picked up in the cameras audio i guess. As a one man band your just going to have to make do and keep it as simple as possible =)
 
Going down and dirty for a quick promo shoot today.

GH4 and Sennheiser.jpg

Set the audio to -12db seems to clean up the noise.

GH4 Levels.jpg

Sennheiser settings as follows. Receiver -6, Transmitter -24. Levels looked good on the GH4 but I will make tweaks to match his voice.

Sennheiser settings.jpg

I'll post the spot when I'ts ready for air.
 
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there are a couple options i do at a cheap price.

1. I have the rode videomic (less than $150) and a 10 foot 3.5mm cord that goes straight from the mic to the camera. Then you can get the mic right up close to the subject with a cheap ($25) mic stand. I also use a clamp to hold the mic and windscreen to block wind.

2. Get the audio technica atr-3350 for less than $20. it has a long cord and plugs straight into the camera. Problem solved for $20 bucks and here is a video example of how the audio comes out for me: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G3Vuaj8RQQ&hd=1

If you are filming video interviews it really shouldnt take much effort to sync in post. Just clap your hands once before each take. The only reason it should be hard to sync is if you are filming live events and start/stop the camera a lot and dont get to clap before each take.
 
PegLeg Media said:
The only reason it should be hard to sync is if you are filming live events and start/stop the camera a lot and dont get to clap before each take.
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Or just leave your camera and audio recording running the whole time and clap at the start and stop of the very long take. ( i.e. shoot for 90 minutes with a clap at the start and finish of the clip )

It's relatively easy to adjust the timing of your audio track to match the start and stop clap, and most modern digital gear is very linear when it comes to sync drift, so you correct it once for the long take and it matches for the entire long take.

With Sony Vegas Pro you can quickly sync hours of video with audio ( with hand claps at each end you could sync 3 hours of footage in about 30 seconds or less ) and the corrected sync will hold up for the entire clip.
 
Is the GH4 just as bad as the GH3 when it comes to sound? I found the GH3 to be useless for any serious audio and monitoring was pretty mediocre also.
 
Osslund said:
I found the GH3 to be useless for any serious audio and monitoring was pretty mediocre also.
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I wouldn't call it useless, but it has poor mic pre-amps so you need to feed the GH3 a strong signal to obtain it's true 63 dB of dynamic range. You also have to shoot in MOV mode to record in uncompressed LPCM audio format.

From the pre-amp side of things it looks like the GH4 is better than the GH3 ( so you don't have to feed it a strong signal to get good sound ), but it has the same -63 dB RMS noise-floor the GH3 has. ( same as my HMC-150 camera )

You have to go dual-system if you want better audio than this.
 
Osslund said:
Is the GH4 just as bad as the GH3 when it comes to sound? I found the GH3 to be useless for any serious audio and monitoring was pretty mediocre also.
Click to expand...

Ive done quite a bit of broadcast work with the GH3 and the audio has been fine. I've never heard any of the audio engineers complain about the audio quality.

As Dingo said, record in MOV mode and always set the GH3's record level to 1. Then use an external Beachtek or similar for XLRs and set the level using the external XLR adjusters. Even though the GH3 is touted as having an adjustable audio level in camera, it is useless and introduces AGC.
 
This is an excellent audio solution for non-studio recording:

GH4 audio levels set to -12db or one click from off.
Rode VMP set to +20db
Sony UWP D11 or Sennheiser G3 set to line
Beachtek mounted on the hotshoe
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/962864-REG/beachtek_mcc_2_2_channel_audio_adapter.html

The MCC-2 will allow you a solution to using your shotgun and a wireless with independent adjustment before going into the camera. You will see them as split channel, so adjust levels on the MCC-2 as needed.

Good luck with your project in Mexico.
 
I use the Beachtek Pro with Senny rads in one channel and you can run a boom like the NTG 2 in the other for back up. Switch AGC on and set audio levels down to one - havn't missed a beat yet. If you'r only using the one channel you can always fill left or right in post (easy preset in PPro) and it will sound great. Mount the Beachtek on the bottom plate and it gives your cam a nice weighty balance. As for zooms and synching - pfffftttt!
 
PegLeg Media said:
there are a couple options i do at a cheap price.

1. I have the rode videomic (less than $150) and a 10 foot 3.5mm cord that goes straight from the mic to the camera. Then you can get the mic right up close to the subject with a cheap ($25) mic stand. I also use a clamp to hold the mic and windscreen to block wind.

2. Get the audio technica atr-3350 for less than $20. it has a long cord and plugs straight into the camera. Problem solved for $20 bucks and here is a video example of how the audio comes out for me: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G3Vuaj8RQQ&hd=1

If you are filming video interviews it really shouldnt take much effort to sync in post. Just clap your hands once before each take. The only reason it should be hard to sync is if you are filming live events and start/stop the camera a lot and dont get to clap before each take.
Click to expand...

You got that audio from a $20 mic straight into the camera? I actually had just bought one of those from Amazon because it's so cheap. It's in the mail still. If I can get that good of audio from that cheap and simple of a setup I will be very happy.
 
bdjansen said:
You got that audio from a $20 mic straight into the camera? I actually had just bought one of those from Amazon because it's so cheap. It's in the mail still. If I can get that good of audio from that cheap and simple of a setup I will be very happy.
Click to expand...

I use this all the time, i think the quality of the audio is as good as most mics up to $200, the issue is that its got a long annoying cord and runs on a watch battery (which lasts a LONG time). I try to run it to my zoom H1 or can even be run into cheaper $40 audio recorders but I'm pretty sure that was straight into the camera. I let a friend borrow it or id test it for you
 
The audio recording straight to camera with the internal mics is really very good. I wouldn't want to use it for everything, but listen to the voice in the beginning of this test. Also listen to the audio in the final clip. Other than wind noise in other parts, I'm impressed.

www.vimeo.com/94477550
 
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