Atomos Ninja - Warning - Use only Atomos recommended SSD media and update firmware

A

Authorist

New member
Hey all,

we´ve been testing the Atomos Ninja under real conditions during a 3 day shooting period and got only very bad results.

1. We´ve connected the AF 101 to the Atmos at 1080p25, the recorder recognized this signal as 1080i which is maybe correct, I am not sure here, but it showed no error, and that at least is confusing. Anyway, the recordings it did showed some weird artifacts in horizontal camera pans/tilts, the upper part of the pic was quite good, but the lower part seemed to be kinda not in time, it showed always the content of 2-3 frames earlier, and the pic was good again, when the tilt ended.

2. Atomos created some files with a size of 0kB.

3. At the end of the day we missed round about 50% of the recordings, they were simply not present on the SSD.

4. The file numbers of the remaining files seemed to be random and it seemed, that the recorder has overwritten some files, otherwise I cannot explain this circumstance.

5. The monitor function is useless for outdoor shootings at day, cause it´s simply not bright enough.

I assumed, that I did something wrong during the first day of shooting cause I´ve always used the bottom on the side of the recorder to turn off the Atomos after the camera was turned off. By the way, it´s necessary to restart the Atomos after the camera was off, cause it doesn´t detect a video signal anymore without a restart?! Furthermore, we entered a new scene number after each restart and we´ve been shooting in 720p50 instead 1080p on the 2nd and 3rd day.

The result with 720p50 was almost the same as with 1080, except the artifacts when the camera was tilted, these did not show up anymore. But again, we were missing at the least the half of the recorded scenes. We used 7 scene numbers, and Atomos shall create one folder for each scene, but on the SSD there were only folders for scene 2,3 and 6. The rest was simply not present, the files were missing as well.

We used the Atomos recorder in combination with a Panasonc AG AF 101 and a SSD from OCZ Vertex 2 with 240 gb which was formatted within the recorder itself.
 
There are many users out there and not having these issues.

I wonder why you wouldnt contact Atomos to rectify the issues?
 
I contacted our dealer in germany and they just said that this is not a known problem. Well, this doesn´t help me, so I decided to make it public afterwards.

But, what I see as a huge problem is, that the recorder does not report any errors, it pretends recording, but it doesn´t. When I put an incompatible CF Card into a Red One, then it doesn´t record and reports, same with each other camera I know. And because of that, how can I rely on it? The list with compatible hard drives and ssds does not help as well, because they did not shoot with all these disks 3 days in a row like we did, they surely did only some few tests. How can I ever know then, what this recorder does and what not? By the way, the testing with our SSD worked well, we reorded a couple of scenes, copied them and so on - but in the real shooting it simply failed, and I do not know if it start to fail after 2 hours or 8 hours or after the 20th scene or after the 100st, and I do not want to figure it out. I bought this thing and I want it to do its job, and if a disk is not compatible, it want - no I urgently need - it to tell me that it´s not.
 
In all fairness, the device might not know the drive is not compatible as the communications with the drive might seem fine. Are you sure the OCZ Vertex 2 doesn't have any problems? When I was researching SSD drives I decided to stay away from OCZ after seeing the number of problems people were having on all kinds of system, and reliability.

The first thing I would do is test with a regular 7200RPM drive and see if that works better? At least try to narrow down the issue. Even further, what is to say the device you are using isn't defective? Maybe it needs to be replaced (Sadly, electronics do fail after passing QA tests).

The things I would do are:

1) Try a different HD.
2) Try different cables. Make sure some cable fault isn't causing the problem.
3) Try reflashing the firmware if this is an option with the Atmos.

If all of those still produce the same results, then I would send the unit back in for replacement/repair.

Rick
 
Thanks for you reply, but as I told before, the SSD works well in a testing environment but not in a real shooting condition. How can I figure out if something works or not? For me the decision is simple: I put Atomos on my black list and will avoid it in the future. We are not talking about a funny toy here, we´re talking about shooting data which is worth several thousand dollars, day by day. And of course you´re right when you say, the device might not know every disk, but it shall also not pretend that it´s recording when it doesn' t. A recording device like this must verify its written data, it must at least report an error when it recognizes, that a actual recorded clip is broken or simply not present or too short or something like that. I cannot take out the disk after each scene and pass it to a DIT to check it on location.
 
Thanks for you reply, but as I told before, the SSD works well in a testing environment but not in a real shooting condition. How can I figure out if something works or not? For me the decision is simple: I put Atomos on my black list and will avoid it in the future. We are not talking about a funny toy here, we´re talking about shooting data which is worth several thousand dollars, day by day. And of course you´re right when you say, the device might not know every disk, but it shall also not pretend that it´s recording when it doesn' t. A recording device like this must verify its written data, it must at least report an error when it recognizes, that a actual recorded clip is broken or simply not present or too short or something like that. I cannot take out the disk after each scene and pass it to a DIT to check it on location.
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We have not heard from you as far as I am aware. I personally check all our support emails. If you would like to PM me, I will make sure you have the latest information that will solve your problems. As far as I can tell, these are all known issues that have been solved with firmware upgrades and with temporary work-arounds until new firmware arrives. A new release is due in a few days. Your experience is NOT typical of Ninja users.

However, the biggest issue here is that you are using an SSD that is NOT recommended and that I would not expect to work. We make it clear on our website and in the Ninja downloadable manual that we currently only support INTEL SSDs.

Please can you PM me the details of your local dealer so that I can ensure that they are giving out the correct information.

Thanks

Dave Shapton
President,

Atomos EMEA
 
Well, first things first -- if you're going to be using a Ninja, I would strongly suggest that you only use certified, verified media with it. They have a few drives listed on their site that they recommend. The OCZ isn't on that list.
http://atomos.com/ninja/techspecs.xml

I'm not saying the OCZ isn't a "good" drive or whatever. I'm saying that if you're going to trust the Ninja with your footage, and if you're going to blame it for any failures, then you have only one rational choice -- give it the drives that it says it works with, and only the drives that it says it works with, and never deviate from that.

Secondly, some of these issues sound familiar, like the half-frame recording thing, I think Atomos has already found and fixed that bug and issued a firmware update for that, so make sure the firmware is up to date.

Third, obviously these issues should be raised directly with Atomos. They're not hard to find, Dave Shapton has been participating with us on the forum directly.

It should be explored and verified by the company as to whether this was a device error, or user error, or a compatibility error. If it was user error, then this report should never have been printed publicly because it just taints the product unnecessarily. If it is a compatibility error, then the whole report should have been written with an entirely different tone, one of "never use incompatible media because these are the kind of things that can happen; only use compatible media". And if it is neither, and the unit itself is truly faulty, then you should inform Atomos of that so they can get on with fixing it, and then simultaneously share your findings here so that users can avoid running into the same problems themselves.
 
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was the vertex 2 a qualified disk? i remember them only qualifying INTEL SSD's, it might be a conflict with SANDFORCE based ssds, because of the compression method the SSD uses. I know Atomos conditions the hard disk to write a certain way, especially with spinning disc drives to lower the chance of dropped frames even with vibration. SSD's are a shot in the dark sometimes, and I know on several interviews, Atomos only qualified and said that Intell SSD's were the only bomb proof ones they've tested.

edit: david AND barry beat me to the punch as I was typing. but i can almost guarantee the issue is that you are using a Sandforce SSD.
 
If it turns out to be caused by using incompatible SSD, someone should change the title to

Atomos Ninja - Use recommended SSD
 
I've changed the thread title to reflect that the issues may be due to incompatible SSD media. Authorist, can you confirm that you're using the most recent firmware?
 
If it turns out to be caused by using incompatible SSD
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Well, it sounds like it was caused by two things:
1) Atomos had some bugs in their earlier firmware that they've now fixed, but Authorist was using the earlier firmware, and
2) Authorist was using an incompatible SSD.

Hopefully that is the complete summation of the issue.

For anyone wanting to use any of these external recorders, you are betting your footage on this device so you simply HAVE to take upon yourself two elements of responsibility:
1) UPDATE THE FIRMWARE before shooting! Any of these recorders, like any computer-based device, may have bugs. Updating your firmware isn't a guarantee that you'll avoid bugs, but at least you'll avoid the ones the company has already found and fixed!

2) Use ONLY the authorized/recommended media. If you use anything that's not on the "approved list" then all bets are off and you have ONLY yourself to blame. Every one of these manufacturers that I've checked, issues an "approved" media list -- Convergent has a list of what CF cards are compatible with the Nano, AJA lists what CF cards are compatible with the Ki Pro Mini, and Atomos lists drives that they've tested it with. Unfortunately, Atomos specifically says that even if you use "compatible" drives, the list is issued "without guarantee."

Finally -- 3) record to internal media too. Put in the SDHC cards and record onboard. It would just be the height of abdicating personal responsibility, IMO, to go trusting your entire recording to a brand-new, untested, first-revision product from a brand-new company using non-approved media.

Authorist, we do appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences. Unfortunately for you, things didn't work out, but you certainly have helped educate future buyers as to some of the pitfalls. I do hope you were able to salvage your project through internal recording or some other means.
 
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I'd also add testing the device thoroughly before a big shoot. I'd run a days worth of tests before trusting anything.
 
Something else to note, Barry, the OP was using an OCZ SSD not an OWC SSD, not the same companies. No need to put OWC in the mist of this since they sell very high quality SSD drives, OCZ may or may not as stated by some web comments. But at the same time, neither OWC nor OCZ SSD drives have been cleared for use with the Ninja.

For users of tech, I generally have little remorse for them when they choose not to follow instructions, directions and update to current firmwares, and also don't bother testing thoroughly before putting gear into production use. That kind of complacency will always bite in the butt.
 
mkfotos.com said:
A relevant review of top SSDs: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/ssd_showdown_4_top_drives_reviewed
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I want to add, be CAREFUL what you use the new 6Gb drives in. I ended up going with the Intel 320 series because of all the reports on the Intel forums with the 510 series with certain machines. This article is about the latest and greatest, but there are a lot of GREAT performers sold which are considered last gen. A lot of it has to do with the controller chipsets.
 
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