Atomos Ninja or Atomos Samurai for my AF100???

N

Nicholas Natteau

Veteran
For green screen work, I'm considering getting an external recorder that can bypass the AF100's internal AVCHD codec. I'm just not sure whether to go with the Atomos Ninja (HDMI) or the Atomos Samurai (SDI).

I know that the Samurai is $600 more than the Ninja. Does it give you more recording options? Better color space?

I have different projects that will involve using the AF100, GH2, FS100, and later this year the C300.

That's why I'm unsure of which external recorder to get.

If anyone knows of something better, please let me know. Thanks very much.
 
I would recommend the Samurai. We rely heavily on timecode and the
Ninja doesn't do that (via HDMI).

Secondarily, Atomos recently added a feature to start and stop recording
when the SDI rec bit is detected. Once you hit "record" on the AF100, the
Samurai starts recording.

The reliability / durability of SDI is much better.

The SDI looks better :-)

jeff
 
Nicholas - Im just here to agree with Jeff. Ninja is a nice product - Samurai beefs everything up including being larger.
 
Except that the Samurai won't work at all with two of the cameras on his list (GH2 and FS100).

While I heartily agree that SDI is an astoundingly better connection than HDMI, if you truly want to be able to use one device on all four of those cameras, the Ninja could do it whereas the Samurai couldn't.

Another option to consider would be the new BlackMagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2. It has both SDI and HDMI, and costs about a third of what the Ninja does.
 
Thank you very much everybody, and thank you very much Barry for your input as well. I just looked up Blackmagic's Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 up on B&H (where I buy most of my gear), and the reviews seem to be somewhat mixed. The fact that it costs so much less makes me a little hesitant. Does it do everything the Ninja does? I'm just wondering why it would be 1/3 the price of the Ninja.
 
The HD BM Shuttle does not do everything the Samurai does.

In fact its just a recorder. A very manual one at that.

The Saumuari has a lot of vital features worth reading up on in the Samurai User Manual ( downloadable to anyone)
 
Sorry about that .. I missed some of the HDMI only cameras out there.


The Blackmagic Hyperdeck is a raw recorder .. so you'll have to invest more in the SSD media
that you use .. and it stresses the SSD more because of the very high datarate. You'll
need to get the top-of-the-line SSD drives and they're more expensive.

And the fun begins when you get it into your NLE and the uncompressed clips drag your
system to its knees :-0

But for green-screen, less compression artifacts often yield better overall results.

One potential solution would be to use one of several HDMI to SDI converters. However, it will
run you between $280 and $400 (depending on which converter).

I know it's a difficult decision ... but I hate going for the lowest common denominator :-)

Maybe Barry's right .. you could try the Hyperdeck shuttle and see if it works for you .. Blackmagic and
it's dealers are pretty good with their return policies.

If it works ... great! .. you've saved yourself a lot of money.


jeff
 
I have different projects that will involve using the AF100, GH2, FS100, and later this year the C300.
Click to expand...


If it works ... great! .. you've saved yourself a lot of money.
Click to expand...

He is going to be running 4 cameras for these green screen projects. Why does he need to save money?

I would be getting the SD Pix 240 - maybe one for each camera

:Drogar-Happy(DBG):
 
I bought a ninja last april and I love it. I use it with my AF100 and since I do mainly stock footage I don't rely on timecode that much.
However, if I had to buy a recorder now, I would get the samurai. Mainly because it starts/stops automatically with the AF100 and I'm not a fan of hdmi (not that I ever had serious issues with it).
Besides, if Atomos delivers its Connect you can use the samurai with any camera which has hdmi only.

Best,
Diego
 
Shooter said:
He is going to be running 4 cameras for these green screen projects. Why does he need to save money?

I would be getting the SD Pix 240 - maybe one for each camera

:Drogar-Happy(DBG):
Click to expand...

High aspirations and limited budgets seem to be the norm round these parts :-)

jeff
 
Point of clarification on the Hyperdeck - I said the Shuttle 2.0, which isn't strictly uncompressed anymore, it now offers the option of recording DNxHD at 220mbps. Much, much less data than uncompressed, which means longer recording times and lighter drive and storage requirements.

If using a converter, I would definitely prefer a Samurai with an HDMI->HD-SDI converter over a Ninja with an SDI->HDMI converter. Mini converters exist on the market already.

But if starting to fiddle around with converters, yeah, like Shooter said, forget the Atomos-with-converter process and just go with a PIX 240, which does everything the Samurai does, and is HDMI and HD-SDI both, and no need for extra cabling and batteries and powering for a converter box. However, now the $1000 Ninja/$1500 Samurai question has inflated to $2700 for a PIX 240...

As to whether the Shuttle 2.0 does everything the Samurai does: no, of course not. It barely does anything, actually -- it is strictly a recorder. It records, and that's all it does. But it does it at 1/4 the price and supports both SDI and HDMI, and the new one also supports compressed DNxHD, so I thought maybe it would be something the OP should consider.
 
But it does it at 1/4 the price and supports both SDI and HDMI, and the new one also supports compressed DNxHD, so I thought maybe it would be something the OP should consider.
Click to expand...

One must factor in the expense of buying a $99 mounting hole if one chooses the Hyperdeck Shuttle. Thats 25% the price of the device!

The cables add another $80
 
In defense of the Shuttle plate, it is a really nice piece of gear. Lots of mounting holes, with spacing for IDX or AB battery plates. Several of the threads are heli-coiled for extra strength. There are two 5/32 on the edge that perfectly fit the Berkey Systems 15mm mount. Makes for a nice vertical installation right behind the AF100.

Markertek has several cable choices starting at 18 dollars each.

The Shuttle does play back as well. I keep my TV-Logic downstream of the recorder so I can easily play back to confirm a successful recording.

Add in the built-in HD-SDI > HDMI and HDMI > HD-SDI conversion and it is a pretty good value.
 
In defense of the Shuttle plate, it is a really nice piece of gear. Lots of mounting holes, with spacing for IDX or AB battery plates. Several of the threads are heli-coiled for extra strength. There are two 5/32 on the edge that perfectly fit the Berkey Systems 15mm mount. Makes for a nice vertical installation right behind the AF100.

​



As much as I like cool looking cheese plates Stephen ...I still object to paying $99 just to get a simple "hole" because the designer forgot to draw one that should have been on the device from the get go.

The AF100 came with a few of them free!

:Drogar-Happy(DBG):
 
I'd like to note that the Atomos HDMI convertor is pretty small and self powered, but it does add about $350, the same price as the shuttle!

http://www.atomos.com/connect/

Barry_Green said:
Point of clarification on the Hyperdeck - I said the Shuttle 2.0, which isn't strictly uncompressed anymore, it now offers the option of recording DNxHD at 220mbps. Much, much less data than uncompressed, which means longer recording times and lighter drive and storage requirements.

If using a converter, I would definitely prefer a Samurai with an HDMI->HD-SDI converter over a Ninja with an SDI->HDMI converter. Mini converters exist on the market already.

But if starting to fiddle around with converters, yeah, like Shooter said, forget the Atomos-with-converter process and just go with a PIX 240, which does everything the Samurai does, and is HDMI and HD-SDI both, and no need for extra cabling and batteries and powering for a converter box. However, now the $1000 Ninja/$1500 Samurai question has inflated to $2700 for a PIX 240...

As to whether the Shuttle 2.0 does everything the Samurai does: no, of course not. It barely does anything, actually -- it is strictly a recorder. It records, and that's all it does. But it does it at 1/4 the price and supports both SDI and HDMI, and the new one also supports compressed DNxHD, so I thought maybe it would be something the OP should consider.
Click to expand...
 
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