GH4 Atomos Flame or Sigma 50-100
- Thread starter brdplya1
- Start date
IN MY OPINION..... I been watching, reading, looking, observing, and have not seen a $1000 difference in external recorded material, so I held off.
YES, 10 bit is obviously better color maths than 8 bit, and can be pushed further.... is your work flow ALL 10-bit all the way to your screen?
JUST bought that 50-100 to pair with my 18-35. It comes in Friday!
YES, 10 bit is obviously better color maths than 8 bit, and can be pushed further.... is your work flow ALL 10-bit all the way to your screen?
JUST bought that 50-100 to pair with my 18-35. It comes in Friday!
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Buying a Flame has a lot more than just the external recording quality to factor in.
1. Large 7" monitor easy to focus with.
2. 1920x1080 resolution which again makes focusing and checking the detail in the shot very accurate.
3. Waveform, vector scope, false color and RGB parade tools to dial in just the right color and exposure of the shot.
4. Ability to load your own custom LUTs so you can shoot log or any other format and see exactly the look you want.
5. Bake in a LUT into the recorded footage so you don't have to do it in post.
6. 10bit, 4:2:2 ProRes422 HQ. I keep seeing videos and articles all over the internet about how there is little visual difference but in almost every single one of these tests the tester was using a locked down camera shooting a still life scene. Those people clearly don't understand how encoders work. Where the GH4 encoder falls apart is with complex motion and high amounts of random detail. A still life scene will never strain the GH4 encoder. There is a solid reason why cinema cameras don't shoot in a H264 format so to say they look the same is absolutely not true. Maybe to the naked eye they can look equal but they really are not. At the same time GH4 users keep asking for a higher data rate for the 4k video so which one is it? The 100mbps either looks as good as ProRes or it does not. If it does look as good then jumping to 200mbps would have no extra gain vs jumping to ProRes. If it can help well then so can ProRes. Recording ProRes is about peace of mind knowing that no matter how complex the shot gets it will always look good and it gives you the desired range to adjust to taste in post without too much of a negative impact on the quality.
7. Bypass the GH4 encoder entirely. Forget about 10bit and 4:2:2 for a second. A realtime H264 still has to cut corners in order to encoder 4k video at 30 frames per second without any issues. Some of these sacrifices may not be as obvious to the naked eye but color really gets butchered by the internal encoder. I can shoot V-log 10bit external and convert to 4:2:0 8bit H264 in post and the video doesn't have anywhere near the same artifacts as shooting v-log internal on the GH4. This is because the GH4 internal encoder estimates blocks of color which leads to the color blotches we see with v-log. Even recording external 8bit v-log eliminates almost all of the v-log artifacts with the GH4. So the 8bit vs 10bit argument is not accurate when it comes to explaining what is wrong with the GH4 internal v-log.
8. 1500nit brightness display. This thing is very good in bright sunlight.
9. HDR. The ability to see a wider dynamic range than you ever could on the GH4 screen.
1. Large 7" monitor easy to focus with.
2. 1920x1080 resolution which again makes focusing and checking the detail in the shot very accurate.
3. Waveform, vector scope, false color and RGB parade tools to dial in just the right color and exposure of the shot.
4. Ability to load your own custom LUTs so you can shoot log or any other format and see exactly the look you want.
5. Bake in a LUT into the recorded footage so you don't have to do it in post.
6. 10bit, 4:2:2 ProRes422 HQ. I keep seeing videos and articles all over the internet about how there is little visual difference but in almost every single one of these tests the tester was using a locked down camera shooting a still life scene. Those people clearly don't understand how encoders work. Where the GH4 encoder falls apart is with complex motion and high amounts of random detail. A still life scene will never strain the GH4 encoder. There is a solid reason why cinema cameras don't shoot in a H264 format so to say they look the same is absolutely not true. Maybe to the naked eye they can look equal but they really are not. At the same time GH4 users keep asking for a higher data rate for the 4k video so which one is it? The 100mbps either looks as good as ProRes or it does not. If it does look as good then jumping to 200mbps would have no extra gain vs jumping to ProRes. If it can help well then so can ProRes. Recording ProRes is about peace of mind knowing that no matter how complex the shot gets it will always look good and it gives you the desired range to adjust to taste in post without too much of a negative impact on the quality.
7. Bypass the GH4 encoder entirely. Forget about 10bit and 4:2:2 for a second. A realtime H264 still has to cut corners in order to encoder 4k video at 30 frames per second without any issues. Some of these sacrifices may not be as obvious to the naked eye but color really gets butchered by the internal encoder. I can shoot V-log 10bit external and convert to 4:2:0 8bit H264 in post and the video doesn't have anywhere near the same artifacts as shooting v-log internal on the GH4. This is because the GH4 internal encoder estimates blocks of color which leads to the color blotches we see with v-log. Even recording external 8bit v-log eliminates almost all of the v-log artifacts with the GH4. So the 8bit vs 10bit argument is not accurate when it comes to explaining what is wrong with the GH4 internal v-log.
8. 1500nit brightness display. This thing is very good in bright sunlight.
9. HDR. The ability to see a wider dynamic range than you ever could on the GH4 screen.
Get the flame. You won't see the fine details the sigma can capture because they will be destroyed by the in cam compression. Most of my previous work used a ninja 2 1080p recorder and the quality was fantastic. But I just did a wedding on a GH4 and GX85 shot in 4K internal for post panning capability. I was very disappointed in the final result. The 10-bit 4:2:2 ProRes is worth it's weight in gold!
I went went the Atomos Flame...There is clearly a difference to my eyes in the image in 4k prores hq vs the internal 4K...it looks to be a heavier textured file, colors pop more and noise appears different than in internal 4K. So far Im happy with the purchase. I am also able to see more and monitor the image better. The out of recorder images look great with out a grade so far.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
Seems like a good call. You can always rent a Sigma 50-100 for not much money when you need it.
I'd say that's a good way to go since for me, at least, it's easier to quickly get comfortable on a lens than on a recorder.
Great that you're happy!
I'd say that's a good way to go since for me, at least, it's easier to quickly get comfortable on a lens than on a recorder.
Great that you're happy!